What do you consider a RAPTOR?

[winwin]

Seems like a lot of people still do not have a common agreement on what is acceptable as a RAPTOR, for me, banded, striped, reverse striped and jungles cannot be considered RAPTOR but what do you guys think?

 

[Neon Aurora]

I agree. It's all in the name. Red-eye Albino Patternless Tremper Orange. Same goes for RADARs and Typhoons in my opinion.

 

[acpart]

I agree but so many others call the banded etc. geckos Raptors that I may have to give up (but I'll never call any of my banded geckos Raptors).

Aliza

 

[winwin]

I agree. It's all in the name. Red-eye Albino Patternless Tremper Orange. Same goes for RADARs and Typhoons in my opinion.

I agree but so many others call the banded etc. geckos Raptors that I may have to give up (but I'll never call any of my banded geckos Raptors).

Aliza

Do you guys have a sample on what you can still consider a raptor? Like that's as low as you can go to calling a gecko a raptor.

 

[cowana]

I agree anything with pattern is a Tremper Eclipse, not a RAPTOR.

This is my RAPTOR, Chula.. She has no hets.

^not sure if you can see her red eyes in that last one, but wanted to add a side shot also^

Here is a shot from her breeder with her next to a Blood RAPTOR.

 

[JoulesBurn]

I assumed the RAPTOR was patternless as well. I've seen a few selling patterned RAPTORs and I kind of assume they don't know what they're talking about and move on.

As someone pretty new to the shopping for morphs part of the hobby, I really wish that people would just list the genes more often. It becomes quickly apparent that some people use these morph names interchangeably or under assumption and it gets really confusing.

 

[winwin]

Now do you guys think that a RAPTOR should have "patternless stripe"? Or that they should be patternless? Because that seems to be the bigger argument.

 

[indyana]

Patternless stripe for me...

I'll put it this way, if you ONLY describe your animal as RAPTOR, it had better be Eclipse Patternless Stripe Tremper Albino Tangerine. I guess I don't really have a problem if people say things like "Banded Raptor" or some other description because you still know what you're getting. I would have a problem if someone only labeled a gecko as RAPTOR but, instead of Patternless Stripe, it was Super Hypo...

 

[cowana]

I agree that a RAPTOR is technically a Patternless Stripe. Chula barely qualifies I suppose with only the beginning on her head going into her neck. The one thing I will slight waiver on is the lack of the stripe and will allow just Patternless. I do question it if it misses the stripe as to whether it maybe a Tangerine, SHTCTB, Ember, etc.

If it is going to be a Jungle, Banded, Reverse Stripe, etc it needs to be labeled as a Tremper Eclipse. I see a few responsible breeders do this ,but then I see others calling them RAPTORs although they don't fit the definition.

 

[winwin]

Patternless stripe for me...

I'll put it this way, if you ONLY describe your animal as RAPTOR, it had better be Eclipse Patternless Stripe Tremper Albino Tangerine. I guess I don't really have a problem if people say things like "Banded Raptor" or some other description because you still know what you're getting. I would have a problem if someone only labeled a gecko as RAPTOR but, instead of Patternless Stripe, it was Super Hypo...

Could you post some samples of that?

 

[cowana]

Dillon at Gecko Labs is really great at differentiating between a RAPTOR and Tremper Eclipse. I will post a few of his examples, any you can see more if you look at his post in Show Off Your Leos.

All Pictures Belong To Gecko Labs. [emoji4]

Tangerine Tremper Eclipse

Giant (Poss Super Giant) Jungle Tremper Eclipse

Giant (Poss SG) Jungle Tremper Eclipse

Giant (Poss SG) Jungle Tremper Eclipse

 

[Music City Geckos]

I bet when Tremper was hatching out RAPTORS he noticed he had a surplus of banded ones left. He got an "ahh ha" moment and called them Tangelos. I'll give it to the man he can market very well.

 

[Kristi23]

This has been and will probably continue to be an argument in the community.

I agree that a raptor needs to have patternless stripe. However, eclipse came from patternless stripes and will carry it with them. Patternless stripes hatch pattenless and gain pattern as they age. I've hatched banded and reverse stripes from two patternless stripe animals. I would call them banded raptor or reverse stripe raptor. I would still consider them raptors because both parents were patternless stripes and they carry the genes to produce more. When you add blood (hypo) to the raptor, it generally ends up having no pattern as an adult. Not the same as patternless stripe, so there could be an argument there, too.

Morph descriptions change over time. Ron himself doesn't use the term raptor in the way he used to. Most breeders will call things a raptor (if it's a tremper eclipse) because it's easier that way. I still believe true raptors are orange and have patternless stripe, but there are so many things crossed now that it's hard to tell sometimes.

John at Gecko Boa had a great answer to this on facebook. Let me get the quote in a minute and I'll post it in a reply.

 

[Kristi23]

This is a quote from John at Gecko Boa taken off facebook.

Okay here's "my once a season raptor comment". I never get why the community gets so hung up on Ron's old descriptions and marketing names. We disregard things like yellow dots on galaxies and the Abyssinian's in whole but we get so worried about a little marketing acronym made a very long time ago. Honestly think about what it was for Ron when he first hatched these out. He saw the patternless and the orange and it easily fit the acronym. So why not? Do we hold ourselves hostage to the name's acronym forever? It should evolve as we understand more about it. I prefer any tremper eclipse to be called a raptor. That really takes all the marketing out of it and makes it simple. The patternless stripe comes and goes and the orange is almost always there in a young gecko. Call them banded raptors if you wish (which i do to save breath) but anyone can see a pic and distinguish those two things without the name. Genetically there isn't much difference since both can produce bandeds and pattys.

 

[Kristi23]

A lot of people don't understand that the name came from what the hatchlings looked like and the genetic background. They hatch patternless and often times orange, but that does change as they mature. Let me see if I can find some example pics of some of mine.

 

[Kristi23]

My examples are eclipse and not raptors, but it's the same idea. The patternless stripe gene (just missing the albino).

You can see how the hatchlings are patternless and then you can see some examples of how they change as juvies/adults.

This is a typical patternless stripe eclipse baby after hatching.





These are juvies. They all hatch similar to the baby above and these patterns develop as they grow. Some get stripes, some get spots. Unless I add the hypo gene (like in a hypo tang), they don't stay patternless. My raptors are the same way.

 

[Kristi23]

This is a patternless stripe (only het eclipse)

 

[Kristi23]

This eclipse has some blood hypo added. You can see how the hypo washes out the typical patternless stripe. One of her parents was a blood eclipse cross, so she only has some of the influence, but it's still there.

 

[Kristi23]

Another thing to consider is radar and typhoon. Those never had letters to define what they were. In the beginning, people would say the radar is the bell version of the raptor. But really, it's a bell eclipse. It doesn't have to have patternless stripe or orange to be considered a radar. I think it makes it even more confusing for people.

There will always be people who stick to the original RAPTOR definition. I honestly prefer to call them that when they fit the definition. However things change over time and the majority of breeders (especially the bigger ones) will call any tremper eclipse a raptor the same way that a bell eclipse is a radar and the rainwater eclipse is a typhoon.

 

[winwin]

This is a quote from John at Gecko Boa taken off facebook.

Okay here's "my once a season raptor comment". I never get why the community gets so hung up on Ron's old descriptions and marketing names. We disregard things like yellow dots on galaxies and the Abyssinian's in whole but we get so worried about a little marketing acronym made a very long time ago. Honestly think about what it was for Ron when he first hatched these out. He saw the patternless and the orange and it easily fit the acronym. So why not? Do we hold ourselves hostage to the name's acronym forever? It should evolve as we understand more about it. I prefer any tremper eclipse to be called a raptor. That really takes all the marketing out of it and makes it simple. The patternless stripe comes and goes and the orange is almost always there in a young gecko. Call them banded raptors if you wish (which i do to save breath) but anyone can see a pic and distinguish those two things without the name. Genetically there isn't much difference since both can produce bandeds and pattys.

I think on this 1, Ron Tremper has a right to insist that only those that fit his descriptions and criteria should be called raptors since he really was the one who created the said morph.

Also, thanks for all your samples, they really clear up a lot of speculations and confusions.