WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON LATELY!?!?!

[Pinky81]

Today i think I found the lowest of the low. I spent the majority of the day crying over that picture of the gecko with no skin in a child's care, who seems fairly indifferent to its suffering. And another who no matter what anyone says or trys to help refuses to get his animal to a vet even though it is obviously continuing to lose weight! What is going on with Children today??? I have been into animals, bugs, herps since I can remember. I have kept toads, snakes, crayfish, tadpoles...etc etc and NEVER once treat an animal with such disregard! On top of that my parents would probably have sent me to a psych. MD if I kept killing animals and experiementing with injured animals to the point of making them suffer slow horrible deaths!

What I have seen in the youngest of this forums member physically makes me sick, and my heart hurts for those animals! And the worst part about it is that the more ppl who post responses the more the OP's continue abusing these animals its like a sick need to seek attention. I am sicken and sad!

 

[Dimidiata]

Im not sure personaly, i mean im a kid too but i have the utmost respect for those that i keep. I LOVE my animals and would never let thing like that happen.

EDIT: i just saw the skin thread... i dont think i have ever thrown up from a thread before. I feel for ya. Its not just here either im on 2 other forums dealing with both fish and one has every genral animal. We are getting kids upwards of 8 with very little animal care capability that depend on mum and pa to take care of their animal. I see threads daily on kiddies ask how to breed their petstore bettas(generaly not suggested as a screwy genetic pool is in place) Or somone trying to keep 5 love birds in a VERY small cage. Parents who buy their kids african dwarf frogs and leave them in half a cup of water. Its just disturbing and honestly in the past week(this is no joke) I stoped with the sugar coating and out right scolded some kids.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

It's simple really, Mel, lack of parental involvement in the child's life and interests. Child seeks attention in other ways.............. classic, and it only gets worse as the child grows up. Using the ignore feature doesn't block quoted posts by other members, so I've seen some of the garbage spewing. The real danger is new members who may follow some bad advice before someone goes in to clean up the mess. With so many of our members outraged by this child, I'm hoping a Moderator will ban this troublemaker.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Im not sure personaly, i mean im a kid too but i have the utmost respect for those that i keep. I LOVE my animals and would never let thing like that happen.

EDIT: i just saw the skin thread... i dont think i have ever thrown up from a thread before. I feel for ya. Its not just here either im on 2 other forums dealing with both fish and one has every genral animal. We are getting kids upwards of 8 with very little animal care capability that depend on mum and pa to take care of their animal. I see threads daily on kiddies ask how to breed their petstore bettas(generaly not suggested as a screwy genetic pool is in place) Or somone trying to keep 5 love birds in a VERY small cage. Parents who buy their kids african dwarf frogs and leave them in half a cup of water. Its just disturbing and honestly in the past week(this is no joke) I stoped with the sugar coating and out right scolded some kids.

Sam, I enjoy talking with kids like you at the shows we vend at and our herp society events.

 

[reps4life]

Today i think I found the lowest of the low. I spent the majority of the day crying over that picture of the gecko with no skin in a child's care, who seems fairly indifferent to its suffering. And another who no matter what anyone says or trys to help refuses to get his animal to a vet even though it is obviously continuing to lose weight! What is going on with Children today??? I have been into animals, bugs, herps since I can remember. I have kept toads, snakes, crayfish, tadpoles...etc etc and NEVER once treat an animal with such disregard! On top of that my parents would probably have sent me to a psych. MD if I kept killing animals and experiementing with injured animals to the point of making them suffer slow horrible deaths!

What I have seen in the youngest of this forums member physically makes me sick, and my heart hurts for those animals! And the worst part about it is that the more ppl who post responses the more the OP's continue abusing these animals its like a sick need to seek attention. I am sicken and sad!

For the past few days I have went to sleep with a choking sensation in my throat. That is why I lost it a bit the other day on someone's thread. There is but so much sadness a person can see in one day. What is going on with these parents? I don't understand how an adult in their right state of mind watch a reptile with half their skin missing and don't do anything about it.
After that picture today, I don't know what to think. I am concerned if it's really a child behind this profile or someone sick acting like a child.:main_huh::disappointed:

I had never looked at her profile page and now that I have I am more stunned and disgusted than ever. She breeds and sells geckos?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pinky81]

I too hope the mods will ban this user, as she isn't using the forum for the purpose of learning and advice but more a sick way to play into their need for attention...which comes from abusing animals!

My heart is hurting..Ive cried so much tonight, and have a nasty lump in my stomach. Like I said where do we draw the line as ingnorance and down right animal abuse and experimentation!!! Willl the sound advice these kids get its not ignorance!

 

[Dimidiata]

Ive never been to a show, hasnt been one at the manatee convention center in forever but thanks. I think theres a dividing line.
Kids who care and kids who dont.
Theres no specific age at wich i say a kid shouldnt have a animal(unless that animal is a threat to them of course). If a kid is going to have one the parents better be full in on it too. I breed my fisrt batch of dwarf gourami at age 10, they are amazing and i still retain a male from on of the frys spawn. I belive that if a kid is truley intrested in properly keeping the animal they should start with a betta fish. Simple instructions, 2.5gal tank, heater, proper food and constant water changes. If they can devote their time to that then i say move them up.(for the record mine got 10gals the spoiled brats). If a kid just ask their parent for say a leopard gecko and the parent says no then that should be the end of it. If the parent says no then their obviously not willing to care for the animal even if they do get it. I guess what im trying to say is that parents shouldnt be buying their kids animals just because. IMO people should be required a licence to own any animal, not an expensive one just like 10$ a year to renew. I think alot of the impulse buyers and whiny kids would think twice about this if then knew theyd have to actualy pay extra for a licence "its not worth the hassel". I would pay 50$ a year if it was me. MY animals mean so much and i couldnt imagine why i would let these things hapen to them its just stupid, and if things ever do happen it will be straight to the vet no questions asked regardless of time of night.

 

[Desdemona]

I'm glad I didn't see the picture of the leo with the missing skin, I don't think I could have handled that... weak stomach.. but that is horrible.

I am with the "lack of parental involvement," statement. If my son ever purposely hurt or abused an animal there would be a lot of involvement and the kind he didn't like.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Could someone clue me in with a link to this "childs" thread? I haven't had a good tantrum in a while. I haven't even seen it and it makes me wanna spit!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

It's simple really, Mel, lack of parental involvement in the child's life and interests.

... AND lack of concern for the precious life their child is the guardian of. Heartsick...

 

[BrightReptiles]

It's upsetting to see some of her threads. she has had two leos die in her care already, and owns 4-5 more.. this is a story which will probably result in a not so happy ending for a nice handful of leos.

I'm curious op, who is the second child you speak of?

 

[M_surinamensis]

IMO people should be required a licence to own any animal, not an expensive one just like 10$ a year to renew. I think alot of the impulse buyers and whiny kids would think twice about this if then knew theyd have to actualy pay extra for a licence "its not worth the hassel".

The problem with licensing is that it's not realistically enforceable. Consequentially, the only people who participate and obtain their licenses are the responsible people who weren't creating problem scenarios to begin with. The people who are irresponsible enough to neglect their pets will simply obtain them illegally. Some few may be caught and punished for their violation of the law, but the kind of funding that would be required for comprehensive application simply doesn't exist...

... and brings up rather murkier concerns about the power of the state when it begins to conflict with self determination and personal freedom for individuals. As much as I'm irritated to see animals being abused and neglected, I'm pretty happy that I still live in a country where the government has some accountability attached to it and is unlikely to kick in my door and drag me away for imprisonment or execution without due process.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the number of dead animals on that unnamed user's hands is a lot higher than two. I believe they even detailed more than two over the course of their membership here. The survival rate under their ownership is staggeringly low; the person simply refuses to accept any personal responsibility for those deaths, even when they are unambiguously, objectively, at fault.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Forget it....I found it.
Also, I should have guessed who it was. This person should be banned and if I ever get the chance to speak to her parents, they wouldn't know what the hell hit them!

 

[Pinky81]

Im with Semus I do not believe there needs to be regulation here...Laney hit it on the head. NO PARENTAL involvement so the child decides to figure things out on there own in anyway possible. I have been keeping animals since I was 4 years old my first being a hamster. I was made to clean its cage, and feed it and water AND play with it. My parents were a big part of my life and guidence in learning how to take care of a pet. I have seen kids take care of pets...so by no means am i saying it is ALL kids. But there are two kids on this forum right now that seem to have NO REGARD for the animals in their care, refuse vet treatment stating mommy and daddy can't or I can't afford it, or I can't get there. They continuely show us photos of sickly starved animals. Like I said I am ALL for education but when each of these people REFUSE to take ANY advice from all of us who are a bit more experienced that crosses the line from ignorance to boredom enduced abusive experimentation. And it is sickening me...because with every post they make on this forum and the responses they get just feeds into their need to keep the issues going for the attention. They have no place on a forum like this, these are kids with serious problems in the head. The other I speak of is BellatheBellAlbino (sp?) With his leo that has obvious paracites if not also some impaction still!

 

[Dimidiata]

I know i know, the license thing will never work... i just wish there was a way to regulate the morons to some extent.(i think of it like a hunting license, if they cant buy one they just dont use one and illegaly hunt) What about lowering the marketabiltity of animals to certain forms of retail shops. IE, not walmart,petco and so on? ALSO this member should be banned for their second "support/backup" profile. That should be in direct violation of the rules no? i too would like to speak with her parents.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I know i know, the license thing will never work... i just wish there was a way to regulate the morons to some extent.

I'm the very last person that is inclined to make excuses or apologies for someone who is abusing an animal out of ignorance, but any kind of formal regulation would lead to problems since there's some degree of subjectivity in which way is the right way to care for reptiles. Look at these forums; there isn't even complete agreement about substrates, heating elements, light exposure, diet, supplementation, handling and behavior and numerous other health and husbandry concerns. So how would lines be drawn between right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable?

Add to that questions about where the cutoff line is drawn for intelligence. You're essentially hinting at the idea of a caste system based on intellect, with those who have it being allowed privileges (keeping pets) that are denied to those who have less of it. That's inherently creating inequality of rights and legal protections, something that... well, that's an enormous violation of the concept of liberty. Beyond which, intellect is only one component of what makes a person more or less qualified to keep a pet healthy. Experience, wisdom, judgment, dedication and effort all have a significant impact on the resulting level of care that is provided. As much as I am clearly proud (egomaniacal, narcissistic, delusions of grandeur, borderline personality disorder) of my own intelligence, I've run into a lot of people who were probably a few IQ points lower that were still infinitely more capable than I am in a given area of competence.

What about lowering the marketabiltity of animals to certain forms of retail shops. IE, not walmart,petco and so on?

Complicated subject, but as a generalization the attitude the consumer base has towards quality will change the practices of those who provide live animals as a business. The better educated everyone is, the less acceptable poor practices become and the more money goes into positive, exceptional practices. So absolutely educate everyone you can.

That said... big box stores are a tricky subject because the conditions of each of them can vary dramatically from location to location and even day to day. They aren't some universal evil that needs to be expunged, they're generally representative of a combination of probability and the expertise of the employees. Knowing what they can be at their best, and recognizing the position of power they hold in the market and as an avenue for public exposure, I cannot endorse any attempt to prohibit them from selling animals, or any smear campaigns aimed at actively tarnishing their reputations.

Honest, specific, analysis with the aim of creating solutions to such problems as are identified. Not rhetoric spewing bandwaggon hopping.

ALSO this member should be banned for their second "support/backup" profile. That should be in direct violation of the rules no?

I'm not a mod, I'm not speaking for the mods. As a member, I always feel a bit weird about the idea of other members interpreting the rules and endorsing any kind of punishment. It's not my place, it's probably not yours... If you see something you think violates the rules or shouldn't be happening, just report it. The mod team here is very good about responding to anything that is brought to their attention. As much as I may agree with you about your characterization of the individual in question, it's best not to make public demands of the site staff or to campaign for action to be taken against a specific member. There's a suggestion subforum, where it's probably alright to post polite ideas, but likely best to keep it generalized and avoid pointing fingers.

 

[Dimidiata]

"ALSO this member should be banned for their second "support/backup" profile. That should be in direct violation of the rules no? ." Not so much of a suggection but as a actual question, Is it against the rules here? i didnt read it but i dont know if theres a set of general unwritten rules here. I dont feel like arguing on the animal limitations nutshell. Its simple, it wont happen. Theres to many variables as you stated Its was just a hopless wish. i mean honestly if it was possible would you be for it?

 

[M_surinamensis]

I dont feel like arguing on the animal limitations nutshell. Its simple, it wont happen. Theres to many variables as you stated Its was just a hopless wish. i mean honestly if it was possible would you be for it?

No.

 

[sunshinegeckos]

Melissa I am right there with you. Its sick and discusting and I wish there was a way to stop it but I cant force them to take my advice but I will still give it in the hopes that they will or that a newbie who sees it will be alerted to the fact that that is not normal. I think I am going to have to put some people on ignore.

 

[LeopardShade]

I am probably in no place or position to speak here, for I am still what most of you would all perfectly acceptably and understandably call a kid. I'm indecisive and still have a lot to learn, and have nowhere near the number of geckos or animals most of you all have, but I can't hold my tongue anymore. I'm not trying to be rude to the two members discussed here by what I am saying, only expressing my feelings on the issue.

I've been keeping my eye on both of these members discussed in this thread, one much longer than the other, and they both truly sadden and sicken me. Their immovable stubborness, persistence to believe that what they're doing is perfectly fine, incredibly disconcerting lack of experience, knowledge, and regard for the animal's wellbeing, and the fact that they seem to be oblivious to their animals' pain and suffering is wrong on so many levels.

They have no purpose or place on this forum if they're not going to accept sound advice from members. Any advice or help so generously given to them is evidently and conspicuously ignored. It is apparent that the two are young and immature, and have no business keeping reptiles or any animals, let alone breeding them, if they aren't going to, especially in the waves of help and advice given to them, provide proper veterinary care for them. Any means of helping them at this point seem to be useless, they are too headstrong to take any help that is offered, and instead lull themselves into complacency in spite of their geckos' rather obviously distressing and dangerous situations.

Pinky81 (EDIT - Melissa, my apologies) in my eyes, you've done all you can and more. I commend you for your illustrious efforts. You have repeatedly tried to help these two see what they're missing and/or what they should be doing, giving completely sound and logical advice, that was repeatedly ignored. It is their choice whether to heed that advice or not, and that choice is out of our control.