whats this???

leonut

New Member
Messages
789
Location
Oklahoma
what do you guys think of this? i was searching things about reptiles when i found it.

An estimated 11 million pet reptiles—mostly turtles, lizards, and snakes—live in U.S. households, according to the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association. That figure, while far lower than for cats and dogs, means that about one out of every 25 households includes at least one reptile, and many have two or more.

America's love affair with cold-blooded critters is not as innocent as it first may seem. The global trade in reptiles as pets contributes to depleted wild populations, damaged habitats, and the individual suffering of the animals involved. For humane, conservation, and public health and safety reasons, The HSUS recommends that reptiles not be kept as pets.

Taken Wild, Sold to You

While several species of reptiles sold as pets are bred in captivity, most are taken from the wild or born of wild-caught parents. Many reptiles die before they ever reach the pet store from rough handling during capture and shipping. During this process, handlers may toss turtles, one on top of the other, into wheelbarrows or mesh bags for transport. Iguanas may be packed tightly together in bound mesh bags inside boxes for shipping.

The methods used to capture reptiles, including flushing out the animals with gasoline, often damage habitat for these and other animals. For reptile dealers, the loss of life and habitat involved merely constitute business as usual.

Animals who make it to the pet store may be sold in injured or weakened condition. As many as 90 percent of wild-caught reptiles die in their first year of captivity because of physical trauma received before they are sold, or because the buyers cannot meet the animals' complex dietary and habitat needs. Captive iguanas, for instance, often suffer from malnutrition and bone disease because they don't get the diet and ultraviolet light they require.

Alarmingly, the number of animals collected from the wild can exceed the reproductive capabilities of a species. Some species of turtles, who are also collected for food and other uses, are in danger of disappearing in the wild altogether because of the commercial trade.

High Maintenance Required

Although reptiles are marketed as low-maintenance pets, many families are overwhelmed by the level of care they require. Pet reptiles need special diets and habitats. Kate Pullen, the director of Animal Sheltering Issues at The HSUS has worked with iguanas relinquished to shelters.

"The level of care, diet and habitat that iguanas need far outweigh that of dogs and cats, and the average person cannot adequately address these unique needs," says Pullen.

"There are at least 6,000 species of reptiles worldwide; roughly 600 are traded commercially. For many species, the basic requirements of nutrition and housing are unknown. Some may live underground their whole lives, while others never leave the forest canopy," explains Richard Farinato, The HSUS' Director of Captive Wildlife Protection, adding that these animals generally will not survive in a ten gallon tank in the living room.

Pet reptiles are also are highly susceptible to infection and disease. In the wild, reptiles rarely come into contact with their own waste or uneaten food—a common occurrence for reptiles in captivity. To complicate matters, it is difficult for anyone other than experts to tell when they are sick. Even when you detect symptoms, veterinary care for reptiles can be hard to find.

When they receive proper care, reptiles can live for many years, outlasting a caretaker's interest in the animal, particularly a child's. Reptiles can easily become too big and dangerous to have at home. The iguana purchased as a six-inch long hatchling weighing less than a pound can grow to five feet in five years. Snakes like pythons and boas can grow large enough to injure or kill a person.

When reptiles become larger and harder to manage, they may be neglected, relinquished to shelters, or simply let loose. Many shelters are not equipped to handle these animals, and they have few options for placement. Pets should never be abandoned to the wild. Animals who are often die from starvation, exposure, or predation. If they live, they can endanger people, native wildlife, and the local ecosystem.

Escaped and stolen animals also can wreak havoc for law enforcement. Alligators thought to be abandoned pets turned up in California, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Oregon, and Wisconsin in June 2005 alone.

Salmonella Risk

In addition to the risk of injury, reptiles can transmit disease. Reptiles carry Salmonella bacteria, which might not make the animal sick but can cause life-threatening complications in people. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) attributes approximately 6% of all U.S. Salmonella cases to reptiles or amphibians.

Because of the health risk, importing or selling small turtles (those with shells, called carapaces, less than four inches long) as pets in the United States has been illegal since 1975. Some states and localities have enacted further restrictions on keeping pet reptiles.

Despite the restrictions, illegal distribution of small turtles may be widespread. Investigators traced four cases of salmonellosis to small turtles purchased in 2004 from souvenir shops in Wisconsin, and discovered that many retailers tried to side-step the law by selling turtles for "educational" purposes or by giving them away with purchase of a tank. In addition, unaware of the danger, families may take in turtles from the outdoors as pets.

Some groups are especially vulnerable to Salmonella infections. The CDC recommends keeping reptiles out of daycare centers and households with children under five, pregnant women, the elderly, or people with compromised immune systems. People who have pet reptiles should take precautions such as washing their hands each time they touch the animals, and disinfecting surfaces the animals touch.

"Reptiles are specialized creatures whose lives are intimately linked to their natural environments," says Farinato. "When you disrupt that link, you put the animals' welfare on the line."

To protect their health and yours, reptiles should not be pets.

personaly, i dont agree.
 

blightedchemist

New Member
Messages
175
Location
Chicago land
hm really interesting article! i dont agree either, though like most animals taken from the wild to be treated as domestic pets, im sure there are a few less than respeciable groups that end up doing more harm to the animals than good.
 

AntMan612

Member
Messages
342
Location
Dublin, CA
Reptiles as low-maintenance pets: A fear that I have is that some parents are buying leopard geckos for their very young children, without providing them with proper parenting on how to be responsible for them. I hate to think about it, but I just fear there are a lot of them that are going to be mistreated and neglected. Unlike cats and dogs, they wouldn't naturally become the "family pet," given that they're isolated in a child's room, who must take personal responsibility for their well-being.
 
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Stevie

Guest
Well, sad enough most of the facts stated in this article are true, but they forget that there are indeed people who take the animals very seriously. Sure there are people who dump their python or whatever when it gets too big, but these people should be put in prison or 'executed'. In Europe there are special reptileshows ONLY for captive bred reptiles and many organisers of shows oblige reptile traders to put on the box of a reptile when it's wild caught. It get's harder and harder (and more expensive) in Europe to import wild caught animals. Everyone is preparing himself for the day that all the boarders will be closed, by buying animals and start breeding with them in order to still ben able to sell/buy these species.

I agree that people should be prepared for an animal when they buy it as a pet, no matter what animal you're buying. If someone acquired an animal and than starts to ask questions about temperature, diet, cages and that kind of basic needs, this person is simply too late! Before you purchase an animal, you should know as much as possible about it natural habitat, behaviour, diet, etc etc etc.

Greets,

Stevie
 
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StinaKSU

Guest
This article is one reason I have begun to lump the HSUS with PETA.

The HSUS recommends that reptiles not be kept as pets.
This right here is absolutely absurd.....and they skew the heck out of a lot of the "information" provided. SOME of the information is true....but they make everything FAR more serious than it actually is.
They make it sound like the vast majority of reptiles are wild-caught.....
they make it sound like all reptiles are going to get sick....
they make it sound like no one knows how to properly keep reptiles....
they make it sound like ALL reptiles will become too big to keep....
they make it sound like a long life span is a bad thing (come on...people die before their dogs and cats...and what about birds??!!....)...
and then of course the whole salmonella thing....ANY pet can carry things that can transmitted to humans...ANY. People have died b/c of diseased carried by hamsters, cats, dogs....... Reptiles carry ONE strain of salmonella tranmissible to humans....cats carry THREE..........and people let their kids play in open sand boxes!!! How many of those salmonella cases are from people eating improperly prepared foods?.....you gonna start telling people not to eat?


No, many people do not know how to properly care for reptiles.......but the same goes for dogs, cats, hamsters, mice, rats, birds, etc, etc, etc. The solution is not to tell people not to keep anything specific as pets....its freakin education.
 

Stitch

New Member
Messages
1,277
Location
Kaua'i, Hawaii
Some groups are especially vulnerable to Salmonella infections. The CDC recommends keeping reptiles out of daycare centers and households with children under five, pregnant women, the elderly, or people with compromised immune systems. People who have pet reptiles should take precautions such as washing their hands each time they touch the animals, and disinfecting surfaces the animals touch.....To protect their health and yours, reptiles should not be pets.

These people should also not handle uncooked chicken or any other pet for that matter. Most people pet their dog or outdoor cat and then pick up a sandwich and eat it. God only knows what our pets get into when outside.

CDC attributes approximately 6% of all U.S. Salmonella cases to reptiles or amphibians

To me that sounds low when you compare it to:
An estimated 11 million pet reptiles—mostly turtles, lizards, and snakes—live in U.S. households

Does any one know what the statistic is that you will be involved in an auto accident (be it your fault or not)? Maybe people shouldn't drive either.........it can be hazerdous to your health. :main_rolleyes:

Oh yeah, dogs and cats once lived in the wild.
 
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Starwild

Gex 'n Snakes
Messages
90
Location
North Carolina
In my opinion, most reptiles, like ANY other animal, can make a good pet for a person who is willing to invest the time, money, and effort to properly care for them. Even an iguana can be a beloved pet for the right person--it's just that few people are the "right" people for such a demanding and challenging species. I know I'm not, therefore, I don't buy reptiles I know I can't handle.

The problem isn't the animals, the problem is the people who buy them on impulse, without knowing what they're getting into. In most cases, I'd bet these are the same people who buy wild-caught, not knowing or caring that captive bred specimens are available and much better for the animal, the buyer, and the species as a whole. I personally would never buy an animal that was wild-caught.
 
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ataber

New Member
Messages
377
Location
Kentucky
When reptiles become larger and harder to manage, they may be neglected, relinquished to shelters, or simply let loose.

Although this may be true to an extent the same can be said for the HSUS beloved cats and dogs. People bite off more then they can chew all the time and it doesnt matter what kind of animal it is. dogs and cats that get let loose are just as big of a problem to our ecosystems as reptiles are.
 

Mel&Keith

Mod Squad Member
Messages
7,180
Location
Pasadena, TX
Most of the exporters have quotas that they cannot exceed to prevent wild species from being underpopulated. Most importers will not buy from exporters who send almost completely dead shipments so I think the section about WC reptiles is a little blown out of proportion.

I have never met anyone who has gotten Salmonella poisoning from a reptile either. Keith has been keeping large collections of herps for over 30 years and while he's been poisoned by food numerous times throughout the years he's never been ill due to handling reptiles.
 

ataber

New Member
Messages
377
Location
Kentucky
i dont think this is the same article your referencing but its pretty similar http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/should_wild_animals_be_kept_as_pets.html

The Humane Society of the United States strongly opposes keeping wild animals as pets. This principle applies to both native and nonnative species, whether caught in the wild or bred in captivity.

Unfortunately they dont consider dogs and cats to be wild animals....hmm guess a pair just randomly popped up in somebody's house one day. lord knows they didnt come from the wild!
 
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Stevie

Guest
ataber said:
Unfortunately they dont consider dogs and cats to be wild animals....hmm guess a pair just randomly popped up in somebody's house one day. lord knows they didnt come from the wild!

Well, I think we can all agree that both cats (since the old Egyptians) and dogs (for more than 3000 years now) are a tiny bit longer domesticated than any species of reptiles. I really understand why people make an exception for these kinds of domesticated animals (same with cows, horses and pigs). We love our reptiles as much as any other loves his/her dog or cat, but you have to admit that for most people, reptiles are still a 'strange' animal to keep as a pet...So please come with arguments that make sense, like the one about education.

Greets,

Stevie

ps. I don't mean to offend anyone, but the last thing we need is to do the same 'too simple thinking' like those anti-reptile folks do....
 

Stitch

New Member
Messages
1,277
Location
Kaua'i, Hawaii
Stevie said:
...So please come with arguments that make sense, like the one about education....ps. I don't mean to offend anyone, but the last thing we need is to do the same 'too simple thinking' like those anti-reptile folks do....


That's part of our point. I'm sure that people had just as much difficulties back when,
...cats (since the old Egyptians) and dogs (for more than 3000 years....
People didn't know how to care for them like we do now. Dogs and cats can be carriers of rabbies...I wonder how many people 3000 years ago had problems with that. Reptile keeping on the scale that it is now is really in it's infancy. We (scientist) are learning new things about them all the time, this includes husbandry.

In all reality cats and dogs are in a different category when compared to reptiles, actually in more categories then one :p . People need to be educated about reptiles, then and only then will reptiles be one step closer to being a more acceptable pet like cats and dogs.
 

ataber

New Member
Messages
377
Location
Kentucky
Couldnt agree more that education is key. People are sometimes raised to hate or be scared of reptiles straight from the get go. why? No reason, the parents just do not like them or are scared of them because they have not been educated or exposed to them. Im sure there were issues when dogs and cats were being domesticated as well, however, its a different society that we live in.

Also my main point from earlier is that dogs and cats pose just as much of threat to our ecosystems as reptiles.
 
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Stevie

Guest
You're right, but these animals are accepted in everything they do, that's my point. They take a different place in our society than reptiles, how bad you don't want them to be different. That's my point; you can't use them to compare.

Education is the key and I think shows like I see on Discovery Channel don't work: "This is a very dangerous snake" of "it can snap your hand of in a split!", not a good image booster....

Besides that, I notice that in many cases not the animal itself is the biggest problem, but the food! For the opinion formed by a society I mean. Because for most 'mothers' insects are even scarier than the reptiles that eat them. Not good for an image too!

Greets,

Stevie
 
L

lepgeckosrock

Guest
leonut said:
When reptiles become larger and harder to manage, they may be neglected, relinquished to shelters, or simply let loose. Many shelters are not equipped to handle these animals, and they have few options for placement.

Myself I believe this is one main part that should be compared to dogs and cats because where I live the shelters are full and there are alot of dogs and cats that run loose and fend for them selfs sorry but I'm yet to see a Reptile running loose in my neighborhood.I think that people need to realize that No matter what the pet is it is there responsibilty to make sure it is taken care of for it's entire life.I started out with 1 dog 10 yrs ago and decided to move to a bigger house 2 1/2 yrs ago and the very first thing I ask was can I keep my dog because if not then I will go elseware I now have 2 dogs and 2 leos and getting a 3rd soon and if I ever decide to move all will go with me or I'll stay here.
 
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fallen_angel

Fallen Angel's Geckos
Messages
7,937
Location
Stockton, CA
StinaKSU said:
This article is one reason I have begun to lump the HSUS with PETA.


This right here is absolutely absurd.....and they skew the heck out of a lot of the "information" provided. SOME of the information is true....but they make everything FAR more serious than it actually is.
They make it sound like the vast majority of reptiles are wild-caught.....
they make it sound like all reptiles are going to get sick....
they make it sound like no one knows how to properly keep reptiles....
they make it sound like ALL reptiles will become too big to keep....
they make it sound like a long life span is a bad thing (come on...people die before their dogs and cats...and what about birds??!!....)...
and then of course the whole salmonella thing....ANY pet can carry things that can transmitted to humans...ANY. People have died b/c of diseased carried by hamsters, cats, dogs....... Reptiles carry ONE strain of salmonella tranmissible to humans....cats carry THREE..........and people let their kids play in open sand boxes!!! How many of those salmonella cases are from people eating improperly prepared foods?.....you gonna start telling people not to eat?


No, many people do not know how to properly care for reptiles.......but the same goes for dogs, cats, hamsters, mice, rats, birds, etc, etc, etc. The solution is not to tell people not to keep anything specific as pets....its freakin education.

Amen!!
 

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