Who raises temps after 3-4 weeks?

[Wild West Reptile]

I am wondering how many of the breeders here raise their temps after 3-4 weeks to get whiter whites in albinos and make the color brighter in other morphs.

 

[TokayKeeper]

I don't...I did lower temps this season though and did such gradually. My idea was to get my first few clutches locked in at male and then lower temps so everything else was mixed or female.

I also don't use wall, teleport, speed, or gps hax in on-line gaming. Rarely consume alcohol, I've NEVER done any illicit substances, generally play by the rules in life, and have no tattoos. Maybe that's why I've not gotten ahead in life.

Sorry, rough day at work and needing to satirely (such a word?) vent.

 

[Thorgecko707]

work? whats that?

 

[M_surinamensis]

satirely (such a word?)

Satirically.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I guess there's only 8 breeders on this site??

 

[eyelids]

If you want to do it then do it... You don't have to justify your actions based on others experiences... Does that mean I raise temps to get better colors? Absolutely not and I think it's deceptive unless you [the breeder] sells the geckos for less than a breeder who achieves similar results from line breeding AND note that they were temperature enhanced...

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I'm not trying it....I just wanted to know what percentage do it. But thanks for that awesome reply! I incubate all my eggs for females, steady temp. Sorry if it's a touchy subject for you. It's just a poll. Relax.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I think it's deceptive unless you [the breeder] sells the geckos for less than a breeder who achieves similar results from line breeding AND note that they were temperature enhanced...

That's interesting.

It's a discussion I have had before, in this specific narrow sense (when Tremper detailed his incubation methods for the public) and in a broader sense surrounding other color altering conditions; using a photo of an animal fired up and showing breeding colors, the use of various supplements, taking photos in different kinds of light, immediately after a shed, while wet, the topic of "pastel" RES...

I've seen a lot of arguments for individual methods being perfectly acceptable (since the animal has the potential to be the color it is) and some arguments made that it is less than honest (because the animal may not always look the way it does in the photo, or because its offspring would require similar conditions to express similar appearances)... but I have never seen anyone say that it's fraud unless it is cheap. Can you explain the reasoning behind that one to me a bit better? It's a subject I'm always interested in, one I have opinions on but this angle is a new one and I'd love to hear it explained in greater detail.

 

[justindh1]

The main reason I feel that this method shouldn't be used is the possible higher chance of deformities within the offspring. Past that it is hard for me to say whether it is right or wrong or if this needs be divulged to any potential buyer.

All incubation temps seem to affect the color of the offspring but it doesn't seem to be that much of a concern to most if not all potential buyers. Incubating for males at 88+ could possibly produce offspring with a varying degree of enhanced color. I bet even males hatched at 88 compared to 92 may show some difference as well. Same as incubating for female. That could actually hide the genetics since they are at the cooler temps. When it comes to labeling, all you see is visual sexed, TSM, or TSF. You never see the exact temperature in which the gecko was incubated at. I am not saying that it should or shouldn't be done but just see them almost in the same category.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I think it's deceptive unless you [the breeder] sells the geckos for less than a breeder who achieves similar results from line breeding

Hey wait.....I bought some geckos from a very successful breeder who raises temps and they weren't cheap, in fact he charges more than most breeders because of his high quality, temp adjusted methods. I'm gonna call him back and ask for my temperature discount!! I wish I woulda known this before I overpaid for my insanely bright geckos. Damn him and his methods.......yeah right.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

The main reason I feel that this method shouldn't be used is the possible higher chance of deformities within the offspring. Past that it is hard for me to say whether it is right or wrong or if this needs be divulged to any potential buyer.

:main_thumbsup:

 

[eyelids]

My point is that someone's geckos that were line bred for generations to achieve a superior color should be held in higher regards than ones produced from simply raising temps... I probably should have held back as I know it came off as rather crude... I assumed you had underlying intentions with the poll...

To be honest the context of my post was ruffled by my disregard for people that need others experience to justify themselves doing something... Being handicapped there's a lot of things I would like to do which are just not possible in my condition... When I hear of people not going forward with things that are utterly mundane [mowing the lawn, washing dishes, etc.] it bothers me... I'm not playing the ''handicapped card'' looking for sympathy... Just giving you information to better formulate your thoughts about what went into my own...

It is so amazing how we impress upon others... I apologize for misunderstanding you and encourage your curiosity....

 

[Wild West Reptile]

My point is that someone's geckos that were line bred for generations to achieve a superior color should be held in higher regards than ones produced from simply raising temps... I probably should have held back as I know it came off as rather crude... I assumed you had underlying intentions with the poll...

To be honest the context of my post was ruffled by my disregard for people that need others experience to justify themselves doing something... Being handicapped there's a lot of things I would like to do which are just not possible in my condition... When I hear of people not going forward with things that are utterly mundane [mowing the lawn, washing dishes, etc.] it bothers me... I'm not playing the ''handicapped card'' looking for sympathy... Just giving you information to better formulate your thoughts about what went into my own...

It is so amazing how we impress upon others... I apologize for misunderstanding you and encourage your curiosity....

First off I'd like to say that you don't have to apologize for how you feel, but I thank you for doing so. Your alright in my book Eyelids! Secondly I understand all about the "handicapped card". My father is a paraplegic, has been since before I was born. I grew up not knowing what a "normal" dad was supposed to be like. He threw baseballs with me, cooked me breakfast every day before school, and did all the things the so called "normal" fathers did for my friends except that he couldn't use his legs. So I know all about being "handicapped". He never used it as an excuse and to this day (he's 65 and has been a paraplegic since 1970) he's still not using it as an excuse. I'm glad that you seem to have the same attitude and for that I commend you. (not knowing what your handicap is of course).

I started this poll because I bought geckos from breeders who do and do not raise the temps and I can say that the one's I got from the guy who raised his temps to achieve brighter colors are by far the "eye candy" of my collection. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do it, but I do agree that the reason I wouldn't do it without further research is I care about the animals and would be horrified if they came out with deformities because of what I did by raising the temps. In saying that, I've consulted with other breeders, huge breeders, and they will tell you as they told me that deformities will happen regardless and it is usually due to vitamin deficiencies or genetics from the parents. I was only interested to see if the breeders on this site do it or not and that was it.

Your idea that the temp raising breeders shouldn't be held in as high regard and shouldn't get as much money for a gecko as the line breeders.....well, I disagree. I don't think that anyone should be penalized for making geckos colors "pop" regardless of how they do it. It's a personal choice and if they produce healthy, beautiful geckos then good for them. And good for me too! I respect all types of breeders who do it within the limits of humane treatment of the animals.

Just my 2 worthless cents. Sorry for rambling.

 

[ElapidSVT]

i tried it one season and ended up having to euthanize quite a number of geckos. this season i'm incubating at a steady 85F and have had no deformities so far.

 

[RampantReptiles]

i tried it one season and ended up having to euthanize quite a number of geckos. this season i'm incubating at a steady 85F and have had no deformities so far.

same here...

I am starting out cooler and gradually warming up so will have mostly males at the end of the season.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I've done it before, never had any issues at all.

 

[Landen]

I did it one year and honestly won't do it again as I had some hatch with minor eyelid deformities on some really nice morphs. With that being said, I have had deformities this year due to a power outage, so nothing is totally avoidable. I do not disagree with it though as each breeder has their own free will to do as they wish, but do think it should be disclosed when selling them. I personally provide details on hatch date, weight logs, parents genetics, feeding habits, ect. I think the more information given, the better the new owner is prepared to care for their new pet. This isn't about sell sell sell, it's about providing quality animals that people can enjoy. Do your research and buy from/what is best for what you need. Who's to say either way is "right".

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I did it one year and honestly won't do it again as I had some hatch with minor eyelid deformities on some really nice morphs. With that being said, I have had deformities this year due to a power outage, so nothing is totally avoidable.

I agree totally with the statement "nothing is avoidable". I too think that it is a personal choice and that they are both "OK" to do. Like I said before, as long as your not putting the animals lifes in danger, I'm all for improving on color and genetics or what have you.

After talking with a large scale breeder, I was told that eyelid deformities are not temp related, but rather are due to a vitamin deficiency passed on from the parents. This breeder has tested every possible angle of this with taking the same eggs from the same clutch and splitting them into constant temp incubation and the other into the "temp raised" incubation and the eyelid issue was in both everytime. So I guess the conclusion that I draw is....your gonna get what your gonna get regardless. I think it's just a personal choice. There are quite a few breeders *doing it and they don't have any issues at all, just like Laney said.

*I did notice that the ones who said they did not have an issue with deformities where the ones who went straight from 80 to 88 without gradually raising temps.

I have NEVER done it for the record, but it is an interesting subject to me as I do purchase animals that have been temp raised.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I'm not saying there couldn't be issues, just that I've never had any. Days to hatch have been 45 give or take a few, using superhatch and either the GEO or a deli cup. It helped to have babies a little sooner because we had a show coming up and I sold out last year, so needed some babes. I don't know if it makes for better color or not, one clutchmate it brighter than the other. Not seeing where there's a consistent way to prove or disprove that theory.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

when Tremper detailed his incubation methods for the public

Tremper did not originate this method of incubation, he just took credit for it. In reality, the "Tremper Incubation Method" of raising temperatures after 14-21 days in order to brighten the color of brown albino females was accidentally discovered when Drs. David Crews and Brian Viets et al were performing temperature sex determination studies in David Crews labs back in the 80's.

Personally, I feel with the superior color genetics we have today, there is really no need to manipulate incubation temperatures to achieve superior color. If this was the case, by virtue of their higher incubation temperatures, male leopard geckos would simply be 'brighter' than females in general... but this is not the case at all.