women "on the front lines"

[Spooki]

i'm going to do my best to keep swearing to a minimum, forgive me for i curse like a hell's angel.

i don't know if anyone else here is military, but this crap just pisses me off so much! i just caught a news story where a woman soldier was "on the front lines" and won a medal for valor. people don't believe she deserves it because she should not have been there and that she only got it because she was a woman. what she did was cover the wounded men with her body to shield them, this is something that has won many MEN medals in the past.

i don't think women should be barred from the "front lines". it's so freaking stupid! if i can do my job just as well or better than a man why can't i do it where i am needed? my boobs do not prevent me from firing my weapon. my boobs do not prevent me from making proper decisions. my boobs do not prevent me from caring for myself and others. being a woman does not mean i'm going to curl into a ball and cry when there is gunfire. i have received the exact same training as the men. i have trained and worked along side these men my entire career. when the time comes to do my job in a war zone why is it so wrong for me to do it? i took the EXACT SAME OATH as these men. i swore to defend my country to the best of my god damn ability but because i have BOOBS and a VAGINA i am unable to!

if i was too weak to carry my own weight i would not have made it through basic training. i can carry myself, i can carry my gear, i can fire my weapon. i may not be the strongest or fastest or best at my job but neither is every guy. women do not damage unit cohesion. when i am doing my job i am not "the chick" or "the girl" i am an airman just like everyone else. i do what is asked of me. i obey all legal orders, my boobs and vagina do not prevent me from doing so.

everyone reacts to being shot at differently. not all men are able to put on a brave face and not run away. not all women cower and cry. there is nothing that keeps me from doing my job as i swore to do except stupid stereotyping and backwards thinking from douche bags in washington.

my period is not a "monthly illness" that keeps me from doing my job. hell, if i was in a combat situation chances are i wouldn't even get it because of the stress! if i did i could just use the pain to pound my enemies face that much harder. god forbid i have to bleed out my vagina once a month! i'd like to see any man deal with that crap. "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

 

[T&KBrouse]

Thank you, Spooki. You said my thinking part. I'm an Army mom. I talked to my son frequently while he was in Iraq. Twenty six of his friends were killed while he was there. Some of the BS that happened was absolutely assinine. Two of his close friends were females, one killed in a mortar blast, the other killed by an IED. You know what they got? Dead...
Meanwhile, Pvt. Shleppo or there got a Purple Heart for a freaking paper cut because he got it while handing out orders. :main_angry:
I'm not trying to military bash, but some of these big-wigs that make these "decisions" have never seen battle and need to wake up and realize no matter the gender; SOLDIER FIRST - NO SOUL LEFT BEHIND!

HUAW!!!:army:

 

[Spooki]

it's just so unfair. sexism is not allowed in this country for other employers but the US government does it every day. if the big chain pet store i work for denied me a promotion because i was a girl i could sue the pants off them!

why even let us serve at all if we can't serve to the full extent; if we are worth less than men why bother?

for some reason in the year 2008 in a country where we pride ourselves on being progressive and fair, "the land of the free and home of the brave" we devalue the abilities and accomplishments of those willing to die to preserve our way of life based on gender and it's accepted.

 

[LizMarie]

Spooki well said!!! Sexism is something that will send me up a wall so I'm just going to say if women can't be given the same respect as men do in the military why even enlist women? They work as hard, sometimes even harder because they have to prove their peers that they belong.

This old timmers view on women being all helpless having to depend on men is ridiculous and silly because behind every good successful man there is a women whether it be his mother, wife, etc.!

 

[ccb geckos]

After personally walking the streets of Tikrit, I feel that the females walking beside me were just as capable as I was. Remember that this is a voluntary service to defend. Females do raise their hands and some of those hands belong to tough fearless SOBs.

 

[Halley]

Meanwhile, Pvt. Shleppo or there got a Purple Heart for a freaking paper cut because he got it while handing out orders. :main_angry:

Are you being serious? Seriously, I cannot tell.

 

[thestack510]

Double standards really suck. The military won't have me, but if they would I would have no qualm about fighting along side of women. We are all in this together. Female soldiers deserve every bit of respect given to their male EQUALS. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself in harms way for the sake of our country, to me gender has no bearing on ability. I've been out shot by a woman at the shooting range before, it didn't make me feel like less of a man. I admired her ability for what it was worth. All of my respect and admiration goes out to you. I'm glad to have you, and grateful from the bottom of my heart for your service. I have faith that in time things will change.

 

[jmlslayer]

Are you being serious? Seriously, I cannot tell.

IF you are wounded in active duty of war you get a purple heart so i guess it is true

 

[Snowy & Petra de Gecko]

Somethings die hard

Somethings die hard and while the military has changed the mindset has not.

However, the mindset is changing slowly and it usually changes from the bottom up.

From the top they may want changes but, you cannot force anyone to change. So the change has to happen from the bottom up.

There are those that do the job and those that do not do the job. And it is the few that do not do the job that gives everyone a bad name.

A Paper Cut and a Purple Heart. I would assume that it is true and from what I heard the same stuff happened in Nam. It was the Admin Clerks, or the Admin Staff or the young Luies or Captains that got what medals they could. Luies or Captains in the infantry would be behind friendly lines and if a mortar round was dropped twenty miles away they would claim to have been there to get the Combat Infantrymens Badge.

Officers would come in for a few months and then leave so that they could claim that they were in Command during Combat.

And on and on. However, that was back before 1973.

So has it been and so it shall always be.


As for women in Combat ... well ... if they want to dance then let them. As long as they can do the job then, it is fine with me.

Now for those few women who use their monthly cycles as an excuse. Well I would assume that they do exist ... however ... in most combat line MOSs (Military Occupation Speciality assuming that is what it stands for) I would think the women who chose to do that job would not even think of having any excuse for not doing their job.

Now a long time ago in the 1980s, there were Communication Units that when they went out to the field for Training that some of the women did use that excuse to get out of the training. But, that was a long time ago and the Military has changed a lot.

But, the sterio types have not. And I would hope that is because of ignorance and not sexism

 

[Gecko]

Eventually in the future most fighting will be done be giant robots anyway so the sexism thing will go away.

 

[T&KBrouse]

Are you being serious? Seriously, I cannot tell.

Halley, unfortunately, I'm dead serious.
My son is walking around now with PTSD, severe hearing loss and pieces of shrapnel still imbedded in his leg and is having a helluva time getting any help from the VA.
Guess he shoulda been shuffling papers that day instead of being active on the front line, huh?
Go figure...

 

[Mel&Keith]

I think a lot of you would find this wikipedia article interesting: Women in the military It touches on women in the military throughout the history of the world but has a section specifically on the US.

I didn't know that women have only been allowed to serve (usually as nurses) for about 60 years.

Even during the Gulf War (1991) there were 40,000 women enlisted but they were not allowed in ground combat, they weren't even issued guns by law!

We've only had 3 presidents since the beginning of the Gulf War and our next is going to be a young President of mixed race. Who would have saw that coming when George Sr. was giving his acceptance speech in 1990? Things still aren't equal but it's changing fast. I'm sure we all have Grandparents who remember a military without women and Grandmothers who weren't allowed to vote when they turned 18. It just hasn't been that long. Unfortunately, equality takes time. I think we're lucky to have been making the huge strides we have!

 

[Spooki]

Now for those few women who use their monthly cycles as an excuse. Well I would assume that they do exist ... however ... in most combat line MOSs (Military Occupation Speciality assuming that is what it stands for) I would think the women who chose to do that job would not even think of having any excuse for not doing their job.

actually, it's mostly men who use that as a reason why women should not serve. some women do get very severe cycles but chances are they are not serving. something like that bars you from enlistment. i think it mostly stems from men not understanding the monthly bleeding. i believe in the 90s a US congressman actually referred to it as a disease or a sickness :main_laugh:.

some women do try to get pregnant to get out. that's usually a last resort effort to get discharged. men make equally stupid attempts to get out like doing hard core drugs before a drug test. as with anything though, it's always the worst women who are seen as the example of how women are in the military.

---------------------​

that article had a particularly interesting part... the sexual assault bit. sexual assault for military women is much higher than for civilian women. we are usually assaulted by our own people and not the enemy. 4 in 10 women at VA hospitals report being sexually assaulted while in the military. based on my own experience, i think i'll take my chances with the enemy.

from a CNN article: "We have an epidemic here," she said. "Women serving in the U.S. military today are more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire in Iraq."

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Having served myself, here's my take on this whole topic:

1.) Sex should not be the only factor on which we base our decision of a soldiers combat readiness.

2.) I've met a few men that I seriously doubt I could have depended on in a combat situation. I would have never wanted them in my foxhole, EVER! That being said, it would be unreasonable to think that there isn't a single woman out there that isn't capable of filling a combat specialty.

3.) The ONLY fair way to handle this WHOLE topic is to perform a psychological evaluation on ever man or woman upon acceptance to the armed forces. From there, the government could provide an appropriate choice of M.O.S. that fits the individual and that would also be in the best interest of the military. Will we end up with the combat numbers we need? I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question. But we've certainly had our tax dollars spent on far more foolish things than this, I'd say.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Tanggecko]

I know this is an older post but i had to add some of my experiences to this thread. I was deployed to Iraq a few days shy of a year. Please understand that i do agree with the topic of this thread and women should be given the same job as men as long as they are physically and mentally able to do so. I too have met Men who i wouldn't want to go to combat with. Thankfully those guys were given "Fobbet" (They never leave the wire) jobs.

When my unit first arrived in Iraq we had 4 Females. Two of the four females ended up going home pregnant. All four Females were medics and we would take them with us every time we went outside the wire. As for the 2 females that were left, I would be proud to go back and serve with them again. We had 6 males go home do to various issues. We also had a few guys try to get out of the deployment by doing drugs and failing their drug tests. (It didnt work HA Ha!)

As for the hole purple heart thing, as far as i know you can only get a purple heart if you are injured by an enemy. Paper cuts and twisted ankles dont count. Im not saying that things like this dont happen

I can tell you this, my company's First Sargent (who went outside the wire once and was terrified the whole time we were out) took the opportunity to put himself in for a silver star. Things like that sicken me. Our First Sergeant never got hit by an IED or a VBED (car bomb) like the rest of us. Its just not right and it cheapens the memory of true heros.

I lost my cousin to OIF back in 04. He died trying to protect his fellow soldiers. He was awarded a silver star for valor.

A good friend of mine was also deployed to Iraq. He was on a patrol and 2 hummers were hit by IEDs. Then they were hit by small arms fire in what we call a complex ambush. While other soldiers were providing cover-fire, my friend and another soldier pulled 6 soldiers from the burning hummers. My friend was awarded the silver star for valor.

Its just really wrong when some lazy SOB gets the same metal as soldiers who risk and give their lives.

I would be honored to serve with any soldier (Male, Female, Black, White, Yellow, purple) who is willing to risk their life for their country and their fellow soldiers. After all, we are all green on the outside.

 

[elnott]

i too feel the need to add to this even though it is an older post. i served in the marines for 5 years, and completed 2 tours in iraq. in my time in the military i met women who were better marines than most if not all men at their MOS. both of my tours in iraq women were in my unit. i have no problem with this as most of them were very good at what they do. i personally had 2 women in my unit that were better than the all but a handful of the men we had. but i feel that sexism in the military is a long way from being over. the reasoning for this is because the big brass sees things differently then commoners. what i mean by this is say you have 200 people in a unit. 50 women 150 men. 5 women go home and 7 men go home because they are chicken shish. they see it as losing 10% of their women and around 5% of their men. rather than we lost more men to being chicken shish than women. i agree it is sad but you have to admit it is getting better.

 

[herpnewb12]

I hate to dig up this issue, but it's something that is big for me, even though I'm not active, or a vet. And I must point out, I'm not saying my opinion, I'm just putting out some other things I've heard about why women aren't put on the front line.

For one, I remember seeing/reading/watching something somewhere about how males have a predisposition to protect women. I don't remember all the technical psychological things about it, but it's been put out there.

The other thing is safety of the woman if captured. I won't say that women are less capable than men. Anybody is capable of anything if they set their mind to it. However, it's much easier to mistreat a woman, especially sexually, if trying to torment them.

I think the whole keeping women out of a situation like war where they're likely to die really comes from the fact that early on, as nurturers, childbearers, etc., it was worse to lose a woman than a man. A few men missing here and there is going to put a dent in a society, but if you start loosing women...

Of course it's changed throughout history, but I won't go into that. But I have a feeling that's where it stems from.

 

[paulnj]

My cousin colleen was taught to shot long range and close up by me. She is now in Germany in the army and 6-8 weeks away from an iraq deployment. I defy anyone to say she can't run with the big dogs. She can shoot the barrett at 1200 yards with complete accuracy and holds a black belt in two styles.

While I am scared for her and all my friends already deployed, I have no doubt she can pull the trigger and not miss a breath

 

[Wolfyhound]

For the people who use the excuse of "If they get captured, they could be raped!" to say women shouldn't be on the front lines.. why don't you think the men wouldn't be raped as well? Sexual mistreatment doesn't need a vagina, and IMO rape is much harder on a male than a female.(Trying not to go into too much detail here)

Females can be just as capable as the men. And yes, some inequality is still there in the military, but it's WAY less than it has been in the years past.

In the past NO woman would be on the front lines, and further back, NO woman would be enlisted in the first place. Women used to be regularly drummed out of the service by constant harrassment to force them to leave... now we have many soldiers and officers that value them as good soldiers, and think of them as just that.. another soldier.

There will always be some folks who are derisive based on sex(or race, or size, or eyebrow shape, or whatever), but that number is decreasing in the military. Hopefully the open minds will continue to win out, and eventually we'll have true equality. Until then we all should voice our opinions when needed, and support ALL of our troops all the time.

 

[herpnewb12]

For the people who use the excuse of "If they get captured, they could be raped!" to say women shouldn't be on the front lines.. why don't you think the men wouldn't be raped as well? Sexual mistreatment doesn't need a vagina, and IMO rape is much harder on a male than a female.(Trying not to go into too much detail here)

Females can be just as capable as the men. And yes, some inequality is still there in the military, but it's WAY less than it has been in the years past.

In the past NO woman would be on the front lines, and further back, NO woman would be enlisted in the first place. Women used to be regularly drummed out of the service by constant harrassment to force them to leave... now we have many soldiers and officers that value them as good soldiers, and think of them as just that.. another soldier.

There will always be some folks who are derisive based on sex(or race, or size, or eyebrow shape, or whatever), but that number is decreasing in the military. Hopefully the open minds will continue to win out, and eventually we'll have true equality. Until then we all should voice our opinions when needed, and support ALL of our troops all the time.

I would never venture to say that men can't be raped. However, there are less people in the world willing to rape a guy. There's also this slight issue that exists with the 2 main places we are fighting right now, and that is an almost complete lack of respect of women. So while men can get raped, the likeliness of that happening in this situation is slim. The extreme degradation of a woman to a point unimaginable, however, is not.

If women end up on the front lines in the US military, awesome. It's not like I'm firm set on where I stand with this anyways. I'd have to do a lot more research before I was.