Yet another enigma post...

[leonut]

I'm going to be breeding leopard geckos for the first time next year and i need some info on enigmas before i decide wether or not i want to breed them. So I have a few questions about bell (red eye) enigmas.

1. Are they truley bell enigmas or are they het for bell?

2. What would I get if I bred Bell (red eye) enigma x bell albino.

Sorry if thhey are rather obvious questions. I still don't fully understand enigma genetics.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

1. Are they truley bell enigmas or are they het for bell?

Red eyed Enigmas are truly Bell Enigmas. Enigmas het Bell wouldn't display the red eye trait.

2. What would I get if I bred Bell (red eye) enigma x bell albino.

You'd get 50% Bell Albino Enigmas and 50% Bell Albinos.

 

[leonut]

Red eyed Enigmas are truly Bell Enigmas. Enigmas het Bell wouldn't display the red eye trait.



You'd get 50% Bell Albino Enigmas and 50% Bell Albinos.

That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming that. :main_thumbsup:

 

[leonut]

One more question I forgot before. I heard you are not suposed to breed enigma x enigma becase there is a higher rate of deformitys and wierdness. So is it better to have a male enigma x female bell or female enigma x male bell or does it matter?

 

[Nigel4less]

Honestly IMO all Enigmas circle some just do it more then others. But it would definitely be smart to get Enigma x Non-Enigma then Enigma x Enigma.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

I agree. I think it's better to outcross a couple more seasons before doing any Enigma x Enigma crossings. JMHO.

 

[MeiK]

From every breeder I've spoken with... Enigma X Enigma = a no no.

I have a bell snow enigma with red eyes. He never stops walking around lol.

He's my only enigma (of 3 that I have) that displays anything strange. If he's awake - he's exploring. If he's not moving - he's asleep. :main_rolleyes: He's healthy, happy, and loves being hand-fed. He doesn't circle - and neither do my other enigmas.

Otherwise - so long as people breed responsibly (AKA try not to do enigmaXenigma) - It's a SUPER promising morph. :main_yes:

Edit: to answer your most recent question... Male or female won't matter so long as it's enigma X not enigma.

 

[thestack510]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all Enigmas circle. That isn't true. Regardless, outcrossing is your best bet.

 

[Baoh]

One more question I forgot before. I heard you are not suposed to breed enigma x enigma becase there is a higher rate of deformitys and wierdness. So is it better to have a male enigma x female bell or female enigma x male bell or does it matter?

I'd like to see more data and less rumor on this. Time will provide that, I hope.

 

[leonut]

I'd like to see more data and less rumor on this. Time will provide that, I hope.

You and me both. Lol, thanks for the replies everyone!

 

[pmamhayes]

From every breeder I've spoken with... Enigma X Enigma = a no no.

I have a bell snow enigma with red eyes. He never stops walking around lol.

He's my only enigma (of 3 that I have) that displays anything strange. If he's awake - he's exploring. If he's not moving - he's asleep. :main_rolleyes: He's healthy, happy, and loves being hand-fed. He doesn't circle - and neither do my other enigmas.

Otherwise - so long as people breed responsibly (AKA try not to do enigmaXenigma) - It's a SUPER promising morph. :main_yes:

Edit: to answer your most recent question... Male or female won't matter so long as it's enigma X not enigma.

Ive also got a male red eyed bell enigma, he has to be hand feed in semi darkness, do you HAVE to hand feed yours, I'm thinking its more to do with the Bell gene than the enigma gene? apart from missing the food when striking ( he's succesfull only 1 in 3 times) he show no signs of circling or staring or other odd behavour

my other enigma (a bell engima X tremper albino cross), also had to have food droped in front of her for a long time, she now seems to be at last finding her own food

 

[whkrazyk]

i would get a male enigma bell(more expensive), then you could buy 2 or 3 regular bells female and breed him to both of them, but just my info, you'll have fun either way.

 

[esantoso]

have tried breeding Bell enigma x Bell enigma ... nothing come out.. all of the egg (10 eggs) was rot during incubation ,,, also breed the same bell enigma male to SHTCT female and the egg was succesfully hatch ... so I think the enigma x enigma is a no -no

 

[MeiK]

Ive also got a male red eyed bell enigma, he has to be hand feed in semi darkness, do you HAVE to hand feed yours, I'm thinking its more to do with the Bell gene than the enigma gene? apart from missing the food when striking ( he's succesfull only 1 in 3 times) he show no signs of circling or staring or other odd behavour

I'm probably in the same boat as you... I leave a few crickets in his cage - he only picks off 3-4 or so per week on his own. I DO think the bad aim is from the sensitivity to light with the albino/red eyed gene. He seems to have better luck hunting @ night. :main_yes: His love for constant exploration is the "enigma trait". Poor hunting is from sensitivity to light w/the bell gene. :main_rolleyes:

Having said that - he could sustain himself easily if I added mealworms... Honestly he could probably sustain himself with the crickets - but I prefer a fat gecko to a skinny one.

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

I wouldn't go as far to say all enigmas circle either. I have 37 babie and sub adult Enigmas that were hatched in the last few months that do not circle at all not even a little bit they are not affected by light like the ones who circle nor do they have any head bobbing or wobbleiness Not even when stressed this will take more research but its looking pretty good to me. Usually with enigmas who do these abnormal things it doesn't take much to get them spinning just the littlest things stress them. And these Enigmas I hatched, I'm 100% sure they do not spin at all never, I have even gone as far as to test these geckos out with certain bright lights and stressfull moments to see there behavior and they just dont do anything out of the ordinary, so in my opinion all Enigmas do not spin. out crossing is definatley the best bet for now, I just dont beleive every single Enigma out there to be stricken with neurological disorders, and thats from what I've seen in my breedings of them, But I definatly wouldnt breed Enigma to Enigma tell more is known on how the offspring from that type of cross turn out rather than going off of Rumors wait tell facts. Hope this helps.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all Enigmas circle. That isn't true. Regardless, outcrossing is your best bet.

 

[paulh]

have tried breeding Bell enigma x Bell enigma ... nothing come out.. all of the egg (10 eggs) was rot during incubation ,,, also breed the same bell enigma male to SHTCT female and the egg was succesfully hatch ... so I think the enigma x enigma is a no -no

I think there could be something other than genetics involved. This mating would be expected to produce 1/4 Bell homozygous enigma (2 enigma mutant genes), 2/4 Bell heterozygous enigma (1 enigma mutant gene and 1 normal gene) and Bells (2 normal genes and no enigma mutant genes). Even if all the babies with two enigma mutant genes died, the rest of the babies should have lived if genetics alone was the culprit.

Is there a difference in egg survival rate between matings of enigma males to non-enigma females vs. matings of non-enigma males to enigma females?