Anyone seen this guy?

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

yeah i understand that but i still if you cant atleast hav e enough room or $ to get their mimimum requirements for a long healthy happy life you shouldnt have more that u cant afford,

I am not getting offended by any means...this is just a debate and if people get offend then don't post on the thread JMO.

Well I have room and finances to house all my animals in aquariums. However it is my personal belief that they do not prefer or require aquariums for long happy lives. Yes some of the longest living geckos were in aquariums...but that's due to lack of breeding not being in glass vs plastic.

Lastly how would you fit 3 hides and everything else in a 10g tank? That seems overcrowded and worse in my opinion.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I don't know Travis, they look a little sad….send those over to me and I'll cheer them up in my huge 48 tub rack! LOL!

LOL, I fear they may be too sad to leave. I will just have to keep them here until I can manage to cheer them up. I appreciate the offer and am glad you have such a HUGE heart to embark on such a troublesome endeavor.

 

[Big Red One]

exactly by instinct any animal will try to survive but its like dogs they can be kept in a kennel for along time if u give them food and water daily but its not the best way to keep them (if i made any sence)

and i totally agree with (well I'd choose correct heat/food/supplementation levels in a clean environment any day of the week over a nicely decorated, bigger environment that may not be providing these things.) but u could provide that in a ten gallon tank aswell, keeping a pet its hard work but u get the awesome reward of knowing ur pet its healthy happy and will live for a long time

As some of the others have said, it's not that tubs are necessarily 'perfect' but tbh neither are they particularly a problem as long as there's enough floor space.

What I was trying to put across is that poor husbandry in a larger setup is going to cause more problems to 'quality of life' than correct husbandry in a tub.

Dogs are not the same thing, they are animals that require interaction and exercise to satisfy their basic needs. Leopard geckos don't......

 

[Dimidiata]

What I was trying to put across is that poor husbandry in a larger setup is going to cause more problems to 'quality of life' than correct husbandry in a tub.

QUOTE]

yes but you talk as if they are going to recive such treatment in a tank. Geckos, when kept by resoncible owners should recive propper care bottom line. You cant compare poor husbandry in a large setup to propper husbandry in a tub. It doesnt add up. One could very well say that propper husbandry in a tank is much better for the health of a gecko then improper husbandry in a tub.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

This is when circling begins. This is not a matter of which is better (that's too subjective without any scientific data to back either)...the thread was about tubs being a negative manner in which to keep geckos (in particularly Garrick). What I CAN show is that geckos can thrive in a tub and show no clinical signs of depression or any other form of health issues due to being housed in a tub vs an aquarium with "enrichment".

If ANYONE can show case studies which can bring documented studies on mentation, hormones, or anything which analyzes chemical assays on caging comparisons I would LOVE to read them. I am not saying I am right or your wrong...but if you can't prove tubs are bad then this whole debate can be declared subjective and then the focus would be on individual husbandry not caging selection.

 

[abrahamavelar]

I agree that no matter what they are housed in they should have X amount of floor space. By no means am I saying people do not house geckos in too small of tubs in a rack...but same can be said for aquariums. By 10 gal it is not a volume measurement since they are not utilizing all of the vertical space in a 10g aquarium...but rather the floor space is whats being measured. Using the 10g per gecko "rule", then 2 geckos can be housed in a 20g tank right? Well is that a 20L or 20H/D? Both are 20g but one has much more usable space for the animals. This is why the tubs can be smaller in depth but still provide the same amount of floor/living space required for the geckos. This is how the same quality of life can be provided in a much more condensed manner making it more economical and manageable for the breeder. You just have to always keep in mind, what you see on a video of someones husbandry does not mean that it is how we ALL do it or advocate their techniques. It all boils down to the individual owners and their preferred methods of husbandry. TUBS are not the issue, its bad owners. Look around on CL for a day and look at the quality of some of those animals...most are kept in Aquariums.



Trust me I know where you are coming from in this debate, but to me the problem is individuals not tubs vs glass.

i agree aslong as they have enough floring space and room for their hides they can be house where ever the owner wants but the problem that ive seen and im not saying every1 but most of the videos of ppl on youtube who have their geckos in tubs they are small tubs like shoe size tubs

QUOTE]

yes but you talk as if they are going to recive such treatment in a tank. Geckos, when kept by resoncible owners should recive propper care bottom line. You cant compare poor husbandry in a large setup to propper husbandry in a tub. It doesnt add up. One could very well say that propper husbandry in a tank is much better for the health of a gecko then improper husbandry in a tub.

i agree that u have to have proper care for each gecko you own

 

[Big Red One]

What I was trying to put across is that poor husbandry in a larger setup is going to cause more problems to 'quality of life' than correct husbandry in a tub.

QUOTE]

yes but you talk as if they are going to recive such treatment in a tank.

Now where did I say that?

I'm saying that there are far greater issues that can occur than housing a Leo in a tub. My last line on the original post said :
I'm sure a larger setup with varying nooks and crannies etc will replicate a 'wild' setup and be used fully by the leos. If you can provide this and keep it heated and clean to the same extent, I'm all for it.....

That means, I'd be very happy to see Leo's living in a large setup (btw I don't think that 'tanks' are great, they are much better for fish IMO)

I have the majority of my leopard geckos in vivariums made of wood, with glass fronts. Much better at retaining heat and providing security than a glass fishtank I have found.

The bottom line is there is no evidence whatsoever that using plastic tubs is detrimental to leopard geckos.......

 

[abrahamavelar]

That means, I'd be very happy to see Leo's living in a large setup (btw I don't think that 'tanks' are great, they are much better for fish IMO.

I have the majority of my leopard geckos in vivariums made of wood, with glass fronts. Much better at retaining heat and providing security than a glass fishtank I have found.

The bottom line is there is no evidence whatsoever that using plastic tubs is detrimental to leopard geckos.......

what i mean by tanks im referring as fish thanks vivariums, or those exoterra vivs

 

[RogueMonkey]

Wow just for the record I never meant for this to go like this, I wasnt bashing tubs and I wasnt trying to bash people that use them. Heck I use them its cheaper, easier to heat, easier to clean, and from what i i have seen better than fish tanks. My issue here is with the stanard that 16qt was the smallest tub we should use for adult geckos and that we were always to supply atleast 2 hides one being a humid hide. I am a breeder myself but i thought this was kind of a minimum standard for housing. If im wrong i am truly sorry to ven had brought it up.

 

[abrahamavelar]

yeah thats wat i mean that atleast 2 hides and room to walk

 

[Russellm0704]

Tubs are fine and actually better. They get cleaned more often because they are easy to clean. When in a rack they hold their temps and proper humidity better. It helps us to give them their optimal conditions. And the easier it is for us to get to the geckos, the more time we can spend taking care of them. And about the geckos
In a rack being skinnier: that is absolute horse......

 

[brillobee]

I presently keep my geckos, in 10gal tanks. I just purchased as rack, that has 32qt tubs. In my case the tubs and rack are actually going to give my leos more floor space than the tanks, because the racks are more compact than the tanks. Tanks are so bulky taking up a lot of height, that the geckos don't really use.

 

[abrahamavelar]

well both the tank n the tubs are just as easy to clean pluus wit the tanks u get to see them without disturbing the geckos

 

[Russellm0704]

well both the tank n the tubs are just as easy to clean pluus wit the tanks u get to see them without disturbing the geckos

Tanks are not as easy to disinfect. U can't just take everything out of the tank and take it to the tub and disinfect it as easy as tubs. Geckos like privacy.

 

[12many]

lol i just posted the exact same question yesterday night.

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=85033

I am not jacking the thread or anything, but i too am sorta confused about it.

 

[Dimidiata]

i think theres something up with the quoting here, is saying my name above BRs qoutes and vice versa

 

[abrahamavelar]

a ten gallon its not hard but if u get a 20L+ thats a different story