Ball python battle?

[snowgyre]

Okay guys, so I'm a little irritated right now. I purchased an adult "female" at the last unspecified reptile show from an unspecified vendor. The matter hasn't been settled yet, so I'm giving all parties the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping the misidentification will be solved with a simple trade. But, I want to back up what I observed with your advice before I give anybody grief if the guy refuses to refund me or exchange the animal.

First off, the animal is ~1600 grams. Although I was told it was eating frozen thawed rats, the animal hasn't eaten anything since I purchased it. I've offered it food four times since I purchased it in late January. It showed some interest f/t small rats and large mice but didn't eat them. I wasn't given any feeding records either, but the snake overall looks good. It's mite free, good weight, and good muscle mass.

So here's what happened. Tonight I put my male spider in with "her" and I observed some interesting non-mating behavior. The normal "girl" lifted "her" tail and started rattling it around like I've seen my female leopard geckos do when they're not interested in a male. I didn't think much of it, but my male spider definitely wanted OUT and started displaying the same behavior. Then, the "female" snake's tail turned until I saw what I believe was a pair of partially inverted hemipenes, I'm guessing for scent marking/aggression. The spider tried like heck to get out of there, and did the same partially inverted hemipenes, scent marking behavior, but I have a feeling the only reason they didn't do true battle was because the tub has a lid on it.

So, has anybody observed this tail-raising/rattling/scenting behavior with a female to male interaction? I'm pretty sure I saw hemipenes. I don't think females have a scent gland homologue that comes close?

Thanks for your input. I'm hoping this will be resolved soon if it really is a case of mistaken identity.

 

[Tony C]

You could get a quick answer by having it probed. I have to ask though, why are you in such a hurry to breed an animal that has not been properly quarantined and has not had a chance to settle in and begin feeding? Sounds to me like it just needs to be left alone and have a chance to acclimate to its new home, stressing it out with constant attempts at feeding and breeding will do more harm than good.

 

[snowgyre]

I was told the animal had bred to a pastel before I received "her." I just took her out of quarantine yesterday. I'm new to ball pythons, so I guess I made a few mistakes, so you're right about that. However, I don't have access to a probe set, that's why I was asking the question about the behavior. How often do you think I should attempt to feed him/her? I wouldn't think taking him/her out once a week would be that stressful? I have three other balls, bought my first pair back in Daytona in August 2009, and they all fed within a week with no hesitation, so that's what I was using as my reference for this snake.

 

[Tony C]

How long was your quarantine? 30 days is the minimum recommended length. I would leave the snake alone for a month with no unnecessary handling or attempts at feeding. It may seem like a long time to go without food, but they are capable of fasting for MUCH longer periods of time with no negative effect on their health. Sounds like you were pretty lucky with the first three, but balls are notorious for going off feed when stressed, and sometimes for no apparent reason.

 

[snowgyre]

It was 21 days, so I realize it was short. The reason I shortened it was because I was told it was female, that she had locked, and she's in otherwise excellent weight, form, and health (although not eating, although I heard they could go off feed during breeding season?) and the resources I've read said that to make sure eggs were fertile to at least try two pairings. So yes, I rushed it, that's my mistake. But, I never would've known the snake was male (I'm almost positive it's male) had I not attempted a pairing, and wouldn't have discovered the mistake until next year because I wouldn't have paired snakes together this late in the season. I'll make sure I don't handle her/him until it's feeding, or I can get it probed or exchanged for another snake. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it!

 

[Tony C]

No problem, glad I could help.

 

[robin]

with snakes the minimum quarantine is 90 days

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

+1

 

[goReptiles]

Just take your time. Why return an animal bc it didn't take right away?

Typically, you'd try to breed a second time with the same male. There was not need to rush this breeding, as it was with a completely different male.

Definitely be a little patient. When you rush, you make mistakes, and you're dealing with the lives of animals.

I wouldn't recommend probing unless you know how to do it. Try to find a vet to probe the snake.

 

[snowgyre]

I don't want to return the animal because it didn't take, I want to return the animal because I was told it was female and it's male. It was a bad sale. I don't need another male, and especially not a normal male... it's just taking up space in my rack. Also, if it wasn't sexed correctly, how can I know the other information I was given about this snake was also correct? Was it truly eating frozen/thawed? Was it eating at all? I'm also put in a bad position because now I have a snake I don't want that isn't eating, and I'm not going to sell the snake to somebody else to free up rack space without it getting established with me first. What if it never gets established? I'd rather just go back to the breeder and get a different snake that isn't suffering from a case of mistaken identity.

I will try to find somebody locally who is familiar with snake probing to confirm my suspicions.

 

[Barbel]

The snake is definitely stressed and things were definitely rushed. Always quarantine for a bare minimum of 90 days. When you bring a new snake home put it in its enclosure and don't handle it, touch it or feed it for a minimum of 7 days. If you try to feed a ball python before it is acclimated, you can scare it off feed and it may not eat for months.
I can understand why you want to return the snake if it is in fact male. We have been lied to by breeders before and it sucks! I would see if you can find a vet or even a local pet shop owner to probe or pop it first just so you'll know for sure before you confront the vendor.

 

[adam&nikki]

i think its very silly to get rif of this ball becuz its you think its a male since there was no lock take it to a vet to get it probd properly so you know for sure befor making a bad thing worse


some vendors at expos are there to make somee money and some of them will tell you anything to make a sale so take this as a warning to ask them to sex it infront of you befor you buy it this way if they do youll know that your getting what you want and if they wont well there is always other vendors at expos that will be glad to help you out

 

[goReptiles]

I do understand if it was sold mis-sexed. But, it just sounded like you were trying to return it bc it didn't take.

The snake is stressed out. It needs to be left alone anyway.. Definite rushing on your part.

As for not eating, you should know that BPs are picky eaters and you've already stressed out the snake as it was, you haven't had it but less than a month. Give it time to see if it's really refusing food, and why. And definitely have a vet or another snake keeper to probe the snake.

It could have been an accident and the breeder mixed containers and snakes, if it's really a male. It could have been an honest mistake if the breeder was in a hurry getting snakes ready and packed.

Sometimes you can't always blame the breeder. (Sometimes you can though.)