Breeding and Competition

[Seanu13]

I've been trying to think of how exactly to word this so it may be confusing, hopefully not.

It seems like a lot of people are either getting into breeding or want to (from what I've read on here anyway, I dont see it much where I live, or at all really) so there is A LOT of competition it looks like. I guess my thinking is that I'm wondering how all these geckos manage to be sold and how people make money off it? How they all get homes and such.

This kind of came to mind when I thought about breeding and the business aspect of it. I guess I just have trouble seeing Leo's as being SO popular because of where i live (no pet stores here except one petsmart and a really dirty petstore where the animals all have mites and such).

hopefully this comes across as a curious post rather than something negative so far.

Oh and feeder insects like roaches which are supposed to be rather easy to breed; is it just that you need to do it on a really large scale that more people aren't selling roaches (dubia particularly, because that's what I was looking at buying and didn't find many places, maybe 3)?

I may add to this, my thoughts aren't coming together very well...

I have a real interest in breeding is why I ask. Thanks guys =)

 

[Kristi23]

Very few breeders actually make money from selling their geckos. For me, my goal is to make enough to cover food, etc. If I don't sell some, they'll stay with me or to go friends for free.

 

[RepBex]

i think to make a profit u need to find a pet shop to supply however the breeder i got my normal from the pet shop he was supplying closed and he was stuck with loads and was selling them cheap

but mostly people do it for the sheer love of it and the joy they get from owning such wounderful animals.

 

[Seanu13]

Yeah I plan to do it for the sheer love but thought to myself that the side money wouldnt be bad (lol), especially if reinvested into new morphs/projects and supplies.

Okay so realistically you more than likely wont be selling for much and might even be stuck with a lot. sounds like a good reason to start reeeally small lol..

 

[HepCatMoe]

yup, start small.

i also wonder what the big time breeders do with all their geckos. if the geckos each lay like 10 - 15 eggs per season, i dont see how those big breeders can possibly sell that many geckos.

i mean they have rooms and rooms full of breeding geckos. what happens to all of the babys?

 

[acpart]

I posted a thread like this last year because I'm also curious about who all the geckos are getting sold to besides each other. I didn't get much of a response. I didn't get the feeling that people were deliberatly avoiding responding; it seemed as if no one was really interested.

I agree that it's best to start small. Besides the fact that it's best not to produce too many geckos the first year so as not to have a surplus, there really is something to be said for networking over the course of a few years. As people get to know you, they are more willing to buy from you if they like what they've seen. This is my 4th season and for the first time I actually have people seeking me out.

Here are the kinds of people who have bought geckos from me, in case you're interested:

--gecko owners who want more geckos
--gecko owners who bought from a pet store, had their gecko get sick and die and now want to try again with a breeder
--families with elementary school aged kids who love animals and have been catching frogs and snakes and stuff for years
--classrooms that want a non-furry pet.

Aliza

 

[Halley]

Well the fact of the matter is you don’t always make money, this is my first year breeding, and I will probably loose between $2,000-$3,000 this year.

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=19380

I also agree with the view expressed in the thread.

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=18201

 

[jaredm3624]

I'm starting off really small. I have about 3 breeding sized males (with two coming up) and about 5 breeding sized females. I've only bred one pair so far to see what happens (a mack snow x hypo het RAPTOR). I; in an area where there really isn't a knowledge about leos, but I have sold a couple so far.

 

[goReptiles]

i also wonder what the big time breeders do with all their geckos. if the geckos each lay like 10 - 15 eggs per season, i dont see how those big breeders can possibly sell that many geckos.

i mean they have rooms and rooms full of breeding geckos. what happens to all of the babys?

I know a number of people who keep the best quality and sell the lower quality reptiles to local pet stores to reduce hatchling overpopulation.

I'd start small one and one if I were you, until you figure what you're going to do with the babies. As for making money... Most people don't. I haven't come close to coming out of the red. :-/ Whenever I do- if that day comes- I'll be lucky to make money for feeders, which is fine with me.

 

[jaredm3624]

I guess if you breed your own feeders it might be a little closer to even. I'm sure there are some that make money, but it seems to be that most breeders are in the minus department. Money should be the secondary not priority.

 

[bubblez825]

if I were to be able to breed leos, I would only breed one of my girls, maybe both, then incubate those eggs and stuff, and not reintroduce a m/f together till I have sold some babies or know that i definitely have room

 

[Seanu13]

The money isn't so much a priority if you have the money to be spending in the first place and it wouldnt be too much of a big deal to spend on breeding.

I'm definitely only going to start with a pair and see what happens with that. Would petsmart buy off of small private breeders? The only pet store around here other than that is dirty and I wouldn't subject the Leos to that... Those animals get mites and such. They get better taken care of at the petsmart here from what I can tell.

I'd really like to know if PetSmart would buy feeder insects regularly if you could supply it... like the roaches...

 

[acpart]

The big chains will most likely not buy from individuals since they get what they sell through the corporate system. The best bet is to tell everyone that you breed geckos. It's amazing what word of mouth can do.

Aliza

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have been breeding geckos for over 13 years. Right now, there are so many people breeding them, and so many on the market, that it is very discouraging for many of us 'old timers'. A lot of people start this for the wrong reasons... and making money is certainly not the right one. But, I'm not sure I even know what the right reason is anymore.

Tonight, as I am cleaning and feeding my geckos, I have been holding each one and talking to them as I always do. I have been asking myself "why" I can't just have them and keep them as beloved pets... why do I feel like I have to breed them?

My God, some of my girls are so much thinner and haggard after a breeding season, it breaks my heart. I have a freezer full of dead babies from this horrible season with so many that failed to thrive and are deformed badly enough to have to euthanize. I lost 4 of my breeders this year from complications due to reproduction. These beautiful, gentle creatures even had had names.

I look at all my little precious little babies, and wonder what their lives will be like once they leave here. Will they be beloved pets? Will they just become egg factories for someone who hopes to get rich from breeding them? Ultimately, I am the one who is responsible for their lives and what becomes of them.

Maybe I am just tired from working the 12-hour days. Maybe I am just heartsick for the losses of my beloved geckos. Perhaps I am just burned out and jaded from a horrible season, and finding it hard to be enthusiastic or supportive when someone thinks about starting a gecko breeding business.

But, at least you are asking about what to expect in this 'business'!!! There is so much joy and satisfaction, and the never-ending thrill when a new life pips out of an egg. But there is exhausting work that really doesn't pay very well... especially when there is so much heartache that doesn't have a price-tag.

 

[Seanu13]

Wow that made me really sad and kind of took away the idea of it being a fun thing to do.

I think it seems more like I'm questioning it just because I'm wanting to make money which isn't what it is. I'm asking how anyone gets anywhere with the monetary part of breeding, but my wanting to breed isn't based on a desire to make a bunch of money because I definitely didn't think that was likely to happen. Its good to know whether or not it can at least cover its own cost but aside from that, extra is wonderful but not necessary.

The business aspect was just something I was questioning and not totally focused on. Now I'll reconsider doing it at all I guess, but it would seem that was your goal.

 

[acpart]

I'm still really interested in hearing from other breeders, not about the money part, but about the gecko selling part (I posted my own info above).

Do you generally sell all the hatchlings you intend to sell or do you end up with geckos you have to keep because you can't sell?

Who are you selling to?

Besides the deformity and fertility issues we've been discussing, do you see yourself expanding operations, decreasing or getting out of the breeding business, and why?

Aliza

 

[jandsfannon]

I myself am a "newbie" breeder. Before I started breeding geckos I rescused a "breeding" pair of Bearded Dragons. I never ever would have thought I would have chosen to breed lizards but with the thought of having these little babies to raise after their parents layed the eggs was thrilling to me. So I started researching Beardies talking to pet stores, friends and all sorts of people. Got the word out that we were breeding Dragons and then I went into a pet store one day and looked at a little gecko and had to take it home. From there I looked into breeding geckos and as I started learning (and am still learning) about the morphs and how to make different morphs it got me interested and excited.
At first I was thinking that I could make money as for example The Urban Gecko does but as I started to get to know some local breeders they told me the reality. Most likely in your first year you WILL lose money just from all the costs necessary to purchase geckos, house them, feed them, not to mention incubators.
The second year if you are lucky you might be able to pay for the feeders.
In the next few years as you make more morphs you might be able to pay for your costs and MAYBE make some money if you are lucky.
So I started thinking what should I do? I have come to the conclusion that I am still going to try to breed them, raise then healthy and see what happens.
I am doing it for the love of it the the sheer thrill of getting to help this little creature form egg to hatching and if Im really lucky I will get to SEE one hatch!!
I know that I am not looking forward to having any of them die because that will be very hard to handle and I cant even think of having to euthanize one, but that is also something as I know alot of people had to experience this year on this board (and I am so sorry you had to go thru that)

So its alot to think about, not really something you can just do for the hell of it but if it interests you and you want the responsibility of it, then give it a try.

Hope that helps,

 

[RepBex]

many breeders not just of reptiles only have eyes on the cash it would seem the big timeers there breeders dont have much qaulity of life if they are just egg mashines, the smaller breeders that are here and you are talking about do take a big loss in money but i find there geckos to be of superior quality and i know they have come from a loveing home.

my view is in my Sig

it is worth a ago at breeding small scale but if its for the money dont allow your animals to suffer.

(sorry about spelling its very late half one in the morning)

 

[godzillizard]

Marcia--thanks for the heart felt post--it actually made me tear up :kiss: This is my 3rd year breeding, and I am now just under 20k in the hole, I'm on the verge of selling my entire Leo collection and only working with a couple select projects. I even received my inheritance early to get my fancy enigma male for this season. If it wasn't for my friends and families support, I'd be homeless by now. I've sold a couple thousand worth of geckos since I started, and I still have 98% of the geckos I produced last year. The funny thing is, I take absurdly good care of them, nothing but the best. But very few people care, they just want A+ geckos for F prices, and they can get them, because people are far outproducing the demand. I've even lost a good number of sales after explaining that certain morphs/genes/traits are not exactly what they've been advertised as...but at least I can sleep at night. There are sooo many established breeders, and this is a very small community, if your not the best friend of one of the big time breeders--you'd probably do best to keep geckos as a hobby. There are too many joys to just quit breeding geckos, just be honest, and don't let it get so big that it controls you...