"brown" gecko is white now...

[okapi]

The breeder who named the "brown" albinos, created the RAPTOR, and is about to sell Diablo blancos just posted this gecko for sale:

# 0107 GIANT R.A.P.T.O.R. - first one of 2007 !
(FOR SALE)
Male - 18 grams - $1250.
HET FOR DIABLO BLANCO & Reverse Stripe!!!
TWO perfect all RED eyes!!
The white on the neck, tail, legs, nose, lips and body sides are due to the Diablo genes!!
6 weeks old

heres a link to its pic: HET DB
Heres a link to the site: site

I dont dislike the guy, but some of his sales tactics do get on my nerves... A really pale Raptor that happens to be carrying the blizzard gene is also expressing it to some degree? That makes no sense....

I know this is going to be a huge debate, and sorry about that, but I want to see what everyone elses thoughts are about this particular description. Also note that I made the description red so people could easily see what Im talking about.

 

[strigoii]

do you realy realy care about "his sales tactics"? I don't understand

 

[robin]

do you realy realy care about "his sales tactics"? I don't understand

i think is he has been very misleading in the past. i guess it has left a bad taste in peoples mouths

 

[Ian S.]

Earlier on though he claimed that the eclipse was responsible for "The white on the neck, tail, legs, nose, lips and body sides." (which they clearly are) It's a friggin Raptor het blizzard whats so hard about that!

 

[eyelids]

Ridiculous... Who's stupid enough to buy into that???

 

[giantkeeper]

Ridiculous... Who's stupid enough to buy into that???

All it takes is for everyone to buy in one time :main_yes:

 

[moosassah]

I can tell ya as a newbie to the leo world I wouldn't have a clue unless I found geckoforums to help me weed through the myths & facts.

 

[eyelids]

All it takes is for everyone to buy in one time :main_yes:

What I meant was, Who will believe that the Diablo Blanco "gene" (LMAO) caused the white on that gecko...

 

[giantkeeper]

What I meant was, Who will believe that the Diablo Blanco "gene" (LMAO) caused the white on that gecko...

I personally think that whole project is a huge mess. Funny though, cause I will be working on Raptors and Diablo Blancos myself....lol.

I prefer true genetic traits, and still believe that the Super Mack Snow Blazing Blizzard will be more marketable, because the results "should" be consistent, unlike the variable polygenetic traits in the Diablo Blanco (am I mistaken the only true genetic traits in the DB are blizzard & albino?). Did I ever mention that I think the SSBB will probably look better too! :main_thumbsup:

 

[robin]

Ridiculous... Who's stupid enough to buy into that???

unfortunately a lot of people

 

[Gazz]

The breeder who named the "brown" albinos, created the RAPTOR, and is about to sell Diablo blancos just posted this gecko for sale:



heres a link to its pic: HET DB
Heres a link to the site: site

I dont dislike the guy, but some of his sales tactics do get on my nerves... A really pale Raptor that happens to be carrying the blizzard gene is also expressing it to some degree? That makes no sense....

I know this is going to be a huge debate, and sorry about that, but I want to see what everyone elses thoughts are about this particular description. Also note that I made the description red so people could easily see what Im talking about.

He has to BIG IT UP that way to justify the price :shocked: tag for a leo that's nothing more than a Giant RAPTOR het blizzard :main_thumbsup: .

 

[cjreptiles]

(am I mistaken the only true genetic traits in the DB are blizzard & albino?).

And eclipse.

 

[giantkeeper]

And eclipse.

I think in another thread that someone was saying that was linked to the pattern traits...... I think it was Dan Groovy Gecko.....suppose I misunderstood what he was trying to say though.


Here is the excerpt from another thread regarding the eye mutations....Posted by Dan @ Groovy Geckos

QUOTE****Patternless Stripes have even created Eclipse/Raptor, when bred to eachother, or to Raptors, and this means that "Patternless" is responsible for the eye mutation. I see no other way, that all of the "Aptors", even "het" Aptors, sold before the ruby eyed version, made Raptors for people. I was told my Aptor was a "possible het", but my "het Aptor" was NOT het for Raptor. He just assumed, and the father was only an Aptor, so "ummm no they`re only het for Aptor"

 

[eyelids]

unfortunately a lot of people

That's sad...

 

[okapi]

do you realy realy care about "his sales tactics"? I don't understand

Yes. He is by far one of the biggest breeders in the world. He created and discovered many morphs and has helped make the hobby what it is today. For that I respect him. However, there are some things that he does that I disagree with. He is a genious when it comes to making money, and alot of people see him as an outright scam artist. I dont see it that way, but alot of the things he says and does are very misleading just to generate sales. As Ian said above, he has claimed for the past two years that the eclipse gene causes the white color on the lips, limbs, and sides of geckos. He (and anyone serious enough to look into genetics) understands that the "diablo blanco gene" is a simple recessive gene, aka blizzard. The blizzard gene does not in any way outwardly express itself in the heterozygous state with a lighter coloration. In some instances it causes a higher probability of smaller spots on the body of hets, but affects color in no way. Here he is outright lying to gain sales, which many of us here at geckoforums are familiar with. If he had simply said "giant raptor, het blizzard (make diablo blancos!)" many people would not be offended. I knew that this particular tactic would be brought up sometime between now and may, so I figured I would go ahead and start the ball rolling. In truth, this geckos description and price is his way of trying to keep the RAPTOR (and its spin off morphs) from dropping in price too fast. Im working with the Raptor and blazing blizzard gene pools. I do have plans to cross the two in the future. I am also working with crossing mack snows and blazing blizzards as well. And making giants of BBs, DBs, and SSBBs is my long term goal. But the point of this thread is someone out there is trying to control the market by misleading his buyers into confusion, which is considered wrong in this hobby.

 

[Gazz]

Yes. He is by far one of the biggest breeders in the world. He created and discovered many morphs and has helped make the hobby what it is today. For that I respect him. However, there are some things that he does that I disagree with. He is a genious when it comes to making money, and alot of people see him as an outright scam artist. I dont see it that way, but alot of the things he says and does are very misleading just to generate sales. As Ian said above, he has claimed for the past two years that the eclipse gene causes the white color on the lips, limbs, and sides of geckos. He (and anyone serious enough to look into genetics) understands that the "diablo blanco gene" is a simple recessive gene, aka blizzard. The blizzard gene does not in any way outwardly express itself in the heterozygous state with a lighter coloration. In some instances it causes a higher probability of smaller spots on the body of hets, but affects color in no way. Here he is outright lying to gain sales, which many of us here at geckoforums are familiar with. If he had simply said "giant raptor, het blizzard (make diablo blancos!)" many people would not be offended. I knew that this particular tactic would be brought up sometime between now and may, so I figured I would go ahead and start the ball rolling. In truth, this geckos description and price is his way of trying to keep the RAPTOR (and its spin off morphs) from dropping in price too fast. Im working with the Raptor and blazing blizzard gene pools. I do have plans to cross the two in the future. I am also working with crossing mack snows and blazing blizzards as well. And making giants of BBs, DBs, and SSBBs is my long term goal. But the point of this thread is someone out there is trying to control the market by misleading his buyers into confusion, which is considered wrong in this hobby.

I feel sorry for the person that bites and get hooked and buys the leo gets heart broken to find out the full truth and they could have had this morph them self and at fracshion of the price.

 

[okapi]

I feel sorry for the person that bites and get hooked and buys the leo gets heart broken to find out the full truth and they could have had this morph them self and at fracshion of the price.

Or after they buy it read this...

Q) What will a Diablo Blanco cost?
A) Only a limited number of Diablo Blancos will be let out in 2007, which affects pricing, but I can say now that the price will run somewhere between $1250 and $2000 each depending on quality and sex.

...and realize that in two months they could of gotten the homozygous eclipsed blazing blizzard (het for "ptor") for the same price...

 

[okapi]

I personally think that whole project is a huge mess. Funny though, cause I will be working on Raptors and Diablo Blancos myself....lol.

Not really a mess. Or at least it wouldnt be if he was honest about the genetics behind his geckos. If its a giant eclipsed albino patternless stripe tangerine carrot tail carrot head het blizzard, then call it that and/or have a section on your site that states what the morph names equal to at the genetic level.

 

[Gazz]

Hard bit is telling whats what when you breed these hets X hets telling a RAPTORblizzard from a blizzard eclipse gene blazzing blizzard that would be a dam expensive blizzard eclipse blazing blizzard even harder than that it telling a APTORblizzard from a blazzing blizzard harder still is the NON albino version's
a tremper eclipse blizzard patternless stripe from a eclipse blizzard even harder a blizzard patterless stripe from ablizzard.Blizzards are geneticly NO pattern so you can't see what they are under the skin just coz they have ruby eyes dosen't make them RAPTOR they could be ruby eyed jungle but you can't see that and never will the only true way you can sell these leo as is blizzard or blazing blizzard POSSIBLE het RAPTOR's'etc.

Why go through all that when you just need a albino blizzard mack snow X albino blizzard mack snow = albino blizzard super snow DONE :main_thumbsup: visualy the same even red eyes but also geneticly true you know where you are.

 

[okapi]

Hard bit is telling whats what when you breed these hets X hets telling a RAPTORblizzard from a blizzard eclipse gene blazzing blizzard that would be a dam expensive blizzard eclipse blazing blizzard even harder than that it telling a APTORblizzard from a blazzing blizzard harder still is the NON albino version's
a tremper eclipse blizzard patternless stripe from a eclipse blizzard even harder a blizzard patterless stripe from ablizzard.Blizzards are geneticly NO pattern so you can't see what they are under the skin just coz they have ruby eyes dosen't make them RAPTOR they could be ruby eyed jungle but you can't see that and never will the only true way you can sell these leo as is blizzard or blazing blizzard POSSIBLE het RAPTOR's'etc.

Why go through all that when you just need a albino blizzard mack snow X albino blizzard mack snow = albino blizzard super snow DONE :main_thumbsup: visualy the same even red eyes but also geneticly true you know where you are.

to your first paragraph: This is why record keeping would be needed big time with these things. As well as test breeding the APTOR-Blizzard (whats he gonna call those, "blancos het diablo"?) to APTOR/RAPTOR/DB/non blizzard albinos to prove them out.... ...Then once people who dont keep records and are just in it to get a quick buck start flooding the market with their outcrosses and "hets" :main_thumbsdown: (which will be questionable, considering the fact that proving out a raptor het seems to be random luck for most people)

To your second paragraph: I agree that a SSBB would be alot better looking (NO color but SOLID WHITE), but the Diablo Blanco is a good project too. Firstly, they do look cool. Also they are outcrossing the raptor line with new blood, and a DB, when bred to many different morphs, would produce a whole range of possible morphs with just one Diablo blanco stud. Im going to be working on both DBs and SSBBs.