"brown" gecko is white now...

[Gazz]

to your first paragraph: This is why record keeping would be needed big time with these things. As well as test breeding the APTOR-Blizzard (whats he gonna call those, "blancos het diablo"?) to APTOR/RAPTOR/DB/non blizzard albinos to prove them out.... ...Then once people who dont keep records and are just in it to get a quick buck start flooding the market with their outcrosses and "hets" :main_thumbsdown: (which will be questionable, considering the fact that proving out a raptor het seems to be random luck for most people)

To your second paragraph: I agree that a SSBB would be alot better looking (NO color but SOLID WHITE), but the Diablo Blanco is a good project too. Firstly, they do look cool. Also they are outcrossing the raptor line with new blood, and a DB, when bred to many different morphs, would produce a whole range of possible morphs with just one Diablo blanco stud. Im going to be working on both DBs and SSBBs.

Sorry but even with records i can't see how it's justeried if you breed a hypo X blizzard take the hypo het blizzard offsping breed them to gether tecicaly some if not all the blizzard are blizzard hypo but you can't call them so coz you can't see so ? yes ? but the blizzard offspring of this breeding is only sold as blizzard coz you can't see the hypo of what spot are there or not even if there super hypos'etc.

Here a great example a red eyed jungle albino of what i'm on about.NOW wack a blizzard skin on this leo in this link what you got is not a RAPTORblizzard that's for sure.How do you know when this has happen when you can't see if it has or not coz all you have is red eyes white skin but this leo clearly is not a RAPTOR.All they are is blizzard poss het RAPTOR there's no way round it.

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=2427&highlight=eyed+jungle

 

[marula]

Ridiculous... Who's stupid enough to buy into that???

for sure an italian :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_lipsrsealed:

 

[okapi]

Here a great example a red eyed jungle albino of what i'm on about.NOW wack a blizzard skin on this leo in this link what you got is not a RAPTORblizzard that's for sure.How do you know when this has happen when you can't see if it has or not coz all you have is red eyes white skin but this leo clearly is not a RAPTOR.All they are is blizzard poss het RAPTOR there's no way round it.

I dont think the Diablo blancos have to be patternless stripes under the blizzard gene... The red eyes and white skin is all your looking at, and if they are there then it is a diablo blanco. It doesnt have to be "patternless" under the patternless. Remember, these are eclipsed albino blizzards, with all the raptor traits being "extra" for the morph...
What I was refering to was that fact that in a few years people are going to be selling:
blizzards "het diablo"
blazing blizzards "het diablo"
tangerines "het diablo blanco and raptor"
APTOR "het blanco and raptor"
which may or may not be hets, adding even more confusion, which was the reason I started this post because just the way RT is marketing them is adding enough confusion as it is.

 

[okapi]

for sure an italian :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_lipsrsealed:

"tremper-mania" :main_rolleyes:

 

[Gazz]

I dont think the Diablo blancos have to be patternless stripes under the blizzard gene... The red eyes and white skin is all your looking at, and if they are there then it is a diablo blanco. It doesnt have to be "patternless" under the patternless. Remember, these are eclipsed albino blizzards, with all the raptor traits being "extra" for the morph...
What I was refering to was that fact that in a few years people are going to be selling:
blizzards "het diablo"
blazing blizzards "het diablo"
tangerines "het diablo blanco and raptor"
APTOR "het blanco and raptor"
which may or may not be hets, adding even more confusion, which was the reason I started this post because just the way RT is marketing them is adding enough confusion as it is.

Well if that's the goal bit pointless :main_huh: .Still gona be a pain in the A$$ we know he has a het so they have already been out bred so when do you know if the red eyed blizzard or black eyed blizzard offsping you get is a
Tremper eclipse blazing blizzard or a blazing blizzard eclipse ?? or a
Tremper eclipse blizzard or a blizzard eclipse ?? impossible i think would be a very exspensive if you buy a tremper eclipse blazing blizzard (how much they gona be ? $2000 ish ?) to find out it's a just blazing blizzard eclipse :main_thumbsdown: refering to the eye morphs on this one.

Here's one a blazing blizzard eclipse how could you tell that this is or is not a diablo blanco just by looking ? and what's to stop scamers jumping on the ban wagon selling as such just coz RT ask's silly prices.RT ask £2000 a scamer asks $500 some ones highly likely to slide strate down that pole and wack there a$$ at some point in the future ?.I the RAPTOR pair not really the goal if it's just the red eyes and white skin Why make some that already exsist ?.

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=7385

 

[giantkeeper]

So if the Eclipse gene is truly a stand alone genetic trait, it would be very valuable to have it isolated in a few subjects so that you could make an Eclipse Blazing Blizzard, which I imagine would have red eyes, and probably appear similar if not exactly like a Diablo Blanco.

Sounds to me like some people should really think/plan this out before dropping $1500-$2000 on those traits. :behead:


******************You can so tell I cheated and did not read the most recent posts.....lol***************

 

[eyelids]

for sure an italian :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_laugh: :main_lipsrsealed:

LOL!

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I am so lost. What are you guys even talking about? A Diablo Blanco IS an Eclipse Blazing Blizzard, or Blazing Raptor, or whatever you would like to call it.

Yes, there are Blizzards which have solid eyes, even partially solid, but they seem to pop up randomly in the Blizzards. Ron has added the Eclipse/Raptor gene to them. Nothing more to it, really.

 

[okapi]

Yep, the pattern doesnt really matter because its gonna be covered by blizzard. All that matters with this morph is the eyes and skin color.
And the results of breeding Diablo Blanco to Raptors, APTORs, Eclipses, Blazing blizzards, Jungles, Stripes, Reverse stripes, Patternless stripes, tangerines, other diablos, etc makes them a good morph for someone who wants a variety of cool breeders that can throw a variety of cool babies.
Even just a DB with a Raptor, Aptor, jungle albino, and an albino reverse stripe would be a small scale project with huge results... That alone would make them worth over $1k... no need to mislead people with them if you just give them the fact that "this one gecko paired with pretty much anything tremper albino will throw alot of different morphs"
Thats why I have a hard time understanding why he has to mislead people.

 

[Kotsay1414]

I am so lost. What are you guys even talking about? A Diablo Blanco IS an Eclipse Blazing Blizzard, or Blazing Raptor, or whatever you would like to call it.

Yes, there are Blizzards which have solid eyes, even partially solid, but they seem to pop up randomly in the Blizzards. Ron has added the Eclipse/Raptor gene to them. Nothing more to it, really.

I think Dan's put it the best.

 

[Gregg M]

Not really a mess. Or at least it wouldnt be if he was honest about the genetics behind his geckos.

In actuallity, he does not have to disclose any info on the genetics if he chooses not to... Why would he create something new and different looking and tell the hobby exactly how it was produced, if he wants to make money on it???

Guys, this is how people like tremper make a living... Like it or not, thats how it is...

Everyone worries about what the next guy is doing when it comes to selling new morphs or dropping prices in order to move stock... The difference is, most of us do not make a living from breeding reptiles but people like Tremper do... You really cant falt him for trying to move his stock for as much money as possible...

If you feel you can recreate what Tremper is doing as far as this Diablo Blanco goes without spending the money, then just do it and stop worrying about Trempers way of unloading animals...

 

[okapi]

im pretty sure Kelli makes good money, but she doesnt make false statements so that she can tag on an extra few hundred dollars to a gecko. If he had simply left out the lie about the blizzard gene in the het state causing the white color on the gecko's body I wouldnt care how much he sells it for.

 

[Gregg M]

You are comparing apple to oranges... Kelli is a smaller breeder and an honest person who cares about her customers as well as the leos she sells...

Ron I am sure does a few hundred thousand dollars in sales every year and cares more about his "gecko god" rep and making money more than anything else... But that is his business and his way to make a living... They are two totally different kinds of breeders... Trust me, I am not a fan of his, but it is what it is...

I will also ask, how do you know what he is saying isnt truthful??? I doubt he would sell a leo as something it is not... I am positive that leo is het blizzard.... And maybe from the thousands of leos he bred, he sees this trait come up in the het for blizzards... You dont know what the deal is because you are not working with these particular animals or the morph itself... Sure it is not exactly "het" for Diablo Blanco, but you can bet that, if bred to the right animal, it will produce DBs...

Besides, with an animal like that, you are paying the higher price because the work is already done and if you have a real interest in the look of the Diablos you will produce them a heck of alot sooner than if you start from scratch... You can start producing them this season instead of 1 or 2 seasons from now with the animal he has for sale now...

My point is, dont worry so much about what the next guy is doing... If you do not want to take the chance on buying an animal like that, thats fine... You do what you feel is good for you...

Dont trash someone because you think they might be un-truthful... If you had proof he was bending the truth, then you have a leg to stand on with your argument...

We should concentrate more on our own projects to better improve genetics, health and the overall looks of leopard geckos and stop worrying about how much Ron Tremper sells his animals for or what he does to help sell his animals for a couple of more hundred dollars... People will still buy from him because of the name and you usually get what you pay for from him...

 

[Kotsay1414]

We should concentrate more on our own projects to better improve genetics, health and the overall looks of leopard geckos and stop worrying about how much Ron Tremper sells his animals for or what he does to help sell his animals for a couple of more hundred dollars... People will still buy from him because of the name and you usually get what you pay for from him...

Great post Gregg! This paragraph sums it up the best.

 

[trizzypballr]

The thing is, Ron says that the Diablo Blanco IS a blizzard RAPTOR, the problem I see, as others pointed out, you have no way to know if this gecko is even actully carrying the patternless gene. Anyone who buys this gecko should be able to breed blazing blizzards and RAPTORS to it, and get 100% of the same back, this is where the problems lies, if it isnt patternless, you woulnt get RAPTORs when you breed a DB to a RAPTOR, Thats a HUGE deal to someone who actully spends the probley around $1500 on one....

 

[bittner_344]

I am so lost. What are you guys even talking about? A Diablo Blanco IS an Eclipse Blazing Blizzard, or Blazing Raptor, or whatever you would like to call it.

Yes, there are Blizzards which have solid eyes, even partially solid, but they seem to pop up randomly in the Blizzards. Ron has added the Eclipse/Raptor gene to them. Nothing more to it, really.

i totally agree dan:main_thumbsup:

 

[Gregg M]

The thing is, Ron says that the Diablo Blanco IS a blizzard RAPTOR, the problem I see, as others pointed out, you have no way to know if this gecko is even actully carrying the patternless gene.

What patternless gene???

What Ron means by het for DB is that the raptor is actually het for blizzard... Not sure what you mean by "patternless gene"...

 

[[Username]]

RAPTOR Ruby eyed, Albino, Patternless, Tangerine, ORange I think but the Ruby eyed gene came from a patternless gecko if I remember correctly. I may not be right but a quick google will tell you.

 

[Gregg M]

RAPTOR Ruby eyed, Albino, Patternless, Tangerine, ORange I think but the Ruby eyed gene came from a patternless gecko if I remember correctly. I may not be right but a quick google will tell you.

I dont think that is correct... From what I understand it is linked to the stripe gene.... Forget about the patternless gene... It has nothing to do with raptors... I do not think the "patternless" gene was introduced to create RAPTORs... Whatever the case is, it is a RAPTOR that is het for blizzard... If you breed it to the right animal, you have a chance of producing DBs...

 

[[Username]]

Yea thats for sure