Could i????

[g man]

k u guys got me i guess ill either go with tile or the esubstrate i had before paper towels

P.S. Marcia im hoping to buy a gecko from you lol

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

lol don't need to blow up at me.

I wasn't blowing up at you at all! LOL, I'm darned proud of my reputation as the "MOGL"!

 

[ReptileMan27]

I have no problems admiting that when I first got into leo, I used sand for awhile because I was new to the hobby and didnt know any better. But once I found out that it can kill them, that was it. No more sand for me, some people say I worry to much but I rather be safe then sorry.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

I wasn't blowing up at you at all! LOL, I'm darned proud of my reputation as the "MOGL"!

Ahh come on Marcia, I haven't met you in person, but I don't think the "Mean Old Gecko Lady" fits from what I can tell. You just care about the animals you chose to breed and if you know that something someone else is doing is (or can) cause problems for that animal then you are going to speak up, but I don't think "mean" is the correct term.

 

[Stitch]

Here is a link to help prove why sand is bad (this is an extreme case of sand impaction):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhOpF2Qyuu0

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Here is a *graphic* photo of a necropsy performed on a leopard gecko that died from sand impaction: http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum181.html

Can you imagine the agony it went through before dying?

 

[ReptileMan27]

Here is a *graphic* photo of a necropsy performed on a leopard gecko that died from sand impaction: http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum181.html

Can you imagine the agony it went through before dying?

To me, I cant imagine how that doesent prove sand is not safe for leos but I have had people tell me that those pics mean nothing or prove nothing:main_huh:

 

[BalloonzForU]

:main_huh: How on earth did I miss this one yesterday:main_huh:

WTG MOGL!!!

I really don't understand why anyone would knowingly take the risk of using sand with Leos. It's like walking on the top edge of a skyscrapper drunk, you're bound to fall off sooner or later, so why do it?

 

[Stitch]

To me, I cant imagine how that doesent prove sand is not safe for leos but I have had people tell me that those pics mean nothing or prove nothing:main_huh:

Those people have obviously not talked to a qualified vet then. Another reason why leos tend to have problems with sand is that they have a short GI track.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

This isn't going to make a lot of people happy, but my vet uses sand for his leos. I was going to switch vets because I don't really know what to trust now, but the closest vet I found (other than him) that deals with reptiles is an hour drive. If I have an emergency, I can't take him for an hour drive. But hopefully it doesn't become an issue.

 

[Sandra]

I mantained my first gecko with paper towels until she was ten months old, and then switched to sand for a short period of time, and it didn't convince me at all. I always fed her using tweezers, she was the adult size, her hides where placed on plain surfaces (not sand) and she had several kinds of surfaces where choose from apart from sand (the top of her hides, a branch to climb, a rock wall I made also for her to climb...). Even taking these precautions, shortly after I went to the vet for a check, and in the X-Ray there were shown some particles of sand in her digestive system. After that I removed the sand from her tank.

So, it doesn't matter how many precautions you do take, there's always a possibility that sand will be swallowed.

I would like to know if the experts consider that there are any loose substrates that are safe. I'd like to build a display tank for my first female and male, and I was thinking about using coconut fiber (that is said to be quite safe) or big pieces of wood bark (so that they aren't possible to swallow) of couse excluding cedar and pine, that are toxic. There's also many people in Spain that use peat, but I don't know to which extent it is safe...

Any advice?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have used large, washed aquarium rocks (not gravel), and large grade orchid bark of a size that could not be ingested. The downside of using wood substrates is that it fosters the growth of bacteria and should be changed every 90 days. The rocks look great, but the crickets and mealworms get down in it and die, which stinks and needs changed out about as often.

I think unglazed floor tiles, travertine stone tiles, and slate make beautiful substrates, and is usually less than $3.00 per 12" squares, I have seen some fantastic set-ups using pieces of slate stacked in naturalistic formations and held together with non-toxic aquarium sealant.

 

[ReptileMan27]

I personally wouldnt reccomend any loose substrate for leos, we know sand isnt safe, bark or mulch are just as dangerous, plus their for humidity loving herps mainly, and leos arent. Fish gravel or desert lizard blend(crushed walnut shells), is dangerous also.

 

[Jeanne]

This isn't going to make a lot of people happy, but my vet uses sand for his leos. I was going to switch vets because I don't really know what to trust now, but the closest vet I found (other than him) that deals with reptiles is an hour drive. If I have an emergency, I can't take him for an hour drive. But hopefully it doesn't become an issue.

A lot of Vets don't know the different of care between an Iguana and a Gecko. The first vet I went to, to have a Gecko looked at, told me to make sure to use a heat lamp and to offer plenty of vegetables to the Gecko :main_huh: :main_huh:

The risk of inpaction just isn't worth it, and I agree with Marcia, I won't sell to someone knowing that they use sand. Plus, tile looks so much better than sand, and is safe and easy to clean!

 

[yoimb0b]

k hey guys im gonna go to lowes today and get some tile but is there a specific kind or will just any tile do.

P.S the heat pad will still work through the tile im guessing?

 

[Stitch]

Yes the heat pad will work fine. Just make sure to have one peice cut so that it only covers the warm half and the other half to cover the cool side. Slate tiles conduct heat very well and if it was one peice it might raise the temps of the entire cage.

 

[Wretched]

Aww, Marcia is a nice, loverly woman. Or so it seemed when I met her. perhaps she was just trying to get past my defences. Tho i wont get in any substrate wars. people will use what they use, simple as that.

 

[eyelids]

I use paper towels in my shoebox racks, but use corrugated paper in the sweater box ones. If you're going for looks it's a step above paper towels. You can order them precut for the size of your enclosure(s) from http://www.kingsnake.com/cageliners/.

 

[Sandra]

I personally wouldnt reccomend any loose substrate for leos, we know sand isnt safe, bark or mulch are just as dangerous, plus their for humidity loving herps mainly, and leos arent. Fish gravel or desert lizard blend(crushed walnut shells), is dangerous also.

I agree that any loose substrate that is feasible to be swallowed is dangerous, that's why I thought about the big pieces of wood bark. If the geckos aren't able to put them in their mouths because of the size, then there shouldn't be any problems, am I right?

I was quite reluctant about using coconut fiber and mulch, but I wanted to ask since they are used very often in Spain (by the enemies of sand, but I don't think using these other loose substrates is a big improvement).

But, even if they retain humidity, I don't think that's a big problem if the tank is mantained in a dry enviroment. If you don't want them to be humid, not wetting the substrate is enough.

Anyway, I'm serously thinking about using tile in my naturalistic tank, but I don't know how to adapt a rock wall to this rigid substrate... It's easier if the substrate is loose because it will adapt to the wall and not the opposite. I'll have to start the rock wall at some distance from the floor to use the tile

people will use what they use, simple as that.

I don't think it is that simple when you are putting a living being at risk. You can't just say 'ok, do anything you want, is your gecko who is going to be damaged, not mine'...

Also, I think this debates are interesting. Although the sand issue has been argued a lot, I like to see the opinion of other people about substrates that are not so commonly used

 

[ReptileMan27]

I agree that any loose substrate that is feasible to be swallowed is dangerous, that's why I thought about the big pieces of wood bark. If the geckos aren't able to put them in their mouths because of the size, then there shouldn't be any problems, am I right?

I was quite reluctant about using coconut fiber and mulch, but I wanted to ask since they are used very often in Spain (by the enemies of sand, but I don't think using these other loose substrates is a big improvement).

But, even if they retain humidity, I don't think that's a big problem if the tank is mantained in a dry enviroment. If you don't want them to be humid, not wetting the substrate is enough.

Anyway, I'm serously thinking about using tile in my naturalistic tank, but I don't know how to adapt a rock wall to this rigid substrate... It's easier if the substrate is loose because it will adapt to the wall and not the opposite. I'll have to start the rock wall at some distance from the floor to use the tile


I don't think it is that simple when you are putting a living being at risk. You can't just say 'ok, do anything you want, is your gecko who is going to be damaged, not mine'...

Also, I think this debates are interesting. Although the sand issue has been argued a lot, I like to see the opinion of other people about substrates that are not so commonly used

I wouldnt reccomend coco fiber for leos, I use it for my AFT but leos like it dry, coco fiber is more for tropical species. In theory if the substrate is to big to swallow its safe, but bark and mulch for example, do contain alot of peices that are to big to swallow but their are many small pieces as well that the leo could swallow. I dont think the sand debate will never end because their are always people out their that still say these autopsy pics etc.. mean nothing and they need scientific proof to believe, I personally find that sad:main_no: