deformed mack snow *graphic photo warning*

[dprince]

I already apologized, but up here in Canada, That is not looked at as such a negative thing.

-Nate

Your apology is very appreciated :main_yes: ; it's just that if someone thinks that posting a picture (or thread, or whatever) is unnecessary, then perhaps that person can think long and hard about whether it should be posted at all.

 

[PaulSage]

I already apologized, but up here in Canada, That is not looked at as such a negative thing.

-Nate

Be that as it may, I'd suggest keeping in mind that this is a predominantly gecko-oriented forum; the situation could have been avoided had you given a little more consideration to your audience.

Anyway, it has been my experience that deformed eyelids look the worst on a newly hatched leopard gecko. Despite how disfigured they appear when they first emerge from an egg, I've seen a few of them thrive without any adverse effects. I'm of the opinion that a deformed eyelid is not an inherent death sentence.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What types of food items are high in vitamin A? whether is an actual feeder, something to feed to the feeders, or a specific brand of supplement.

The best form of Vit. A is a reptile multi-vitamin supplement that contains beta-carotene. If you do a search on the SUPPLEMENTATION Forum, you will find lots of discussion on the subject. Sounds like you need a better understanding of how to supplement your geckos?

Eyelid deformities are the most common birth defect in leopard geckos. Some feel it is a result of Vit. A mal-absorption, deficiency, or abundance issues in the mother. Many others feel it is a result of temperature fluctuations, like opening and closing hovabators too frequently, etc. The eyelids are one of the last things to develop with an embryo.

ALL breeders have had eyelid deformities. If they say they haven't, I would seriously doubt their honesty. Not every eyelid deformity causes blindness... only if the gecko cannot close their eyes. Then, the gecko should be humanely euthanized. When you are on a forum that is comprised of leopard gecko lovers, it is extremely difficult to imagine how being devoured alive is humane.

 

[david13]

I did not see the picture, but i hear it is something with a scorpian.
I think the leo should have been humanely euthenized.. Even though in the wild, it would of got eaten, since it is in captivity that just doesnt seem right.
Like Marcia said, there is a lot of leo lovers on this site

 

[mynewturtle]

That's not disturbing it's the circle of life. Here in canada if a gecko hatched fullyformed, or no eylids and has no chance of life I'm sorry but thats one meal were not paying for. I think each country has there own ways of doing things so to speak, Europe for an example mixes species, canada has one less meal to pay for. Respect what nate did, I did it last year as well with a friends monitor and my baby leos that had no chance.

 

[GeckoRing]

The circle of life is not disturbing, the lack of common sense is. I think this has been addressed very respectfully. Consideration should be given to your audience.

 

[PacHerp]

That's not disturbing it's the circle of life. Here in canada if a gecko hatched fullyformed, or no eylids and has no chance of life I'm sorry but thats one meal were not paying for. I think each country has there own ways of doing things[...]

In the future, if you also don't think it's necessary, perhaps don't post it in the first place. That would avoid all of this.

I already apologized, but up here in Canada, That is not looked at as such a negative thing.
-Nate

I wasn't going to post about this, but I do believe something should be said. I myself, lived in Canada for a number of years and know of many leopard gecko keepers that would NEVER inhumanely euthanize a gecko like that.

Please do not associate an entire countries ethics with this one act.

Secondly...

Originally Posted by RoyalCityReptiles

I do not think that it was necessary to post the second picture, and I also do not see what the big issue is. People post pics of their snakes feeding, their leos feeding, and also post pictures of other deformed animals. -Nate

I first clicked on this thread to see if I could get some insight about a particular deformity that showed up in a hatchling. What I ended up finding was a gruesome picture of a gecko who was obviously about to be "devoured alive". This, my friend, cannot be compared with people posting images of feeding their snakes, leos, and other animals.

The fact of the matter is, consideration should have been given to your audience.

With the most respect, I do have one question. How can one keep leopard geckos, incubate their eggs, hatch them, and then as soon as one hatches less that perfect, just throw it away to be devoured alive? I just can't understand this state of mind... maybe I just care too much about these beautiful creatures.

 

[Baker14]

Wether or not it had a chance is not the issue. The issue is not "humanely" euthinizing it. Yes it may have costed money, but it is worth it 100% in my opinion. You should do the right thing, not worry about if you have to buy "one" food item more then you could have Im sorry, but thats just wrong, no matter where you are located. We all have knowledge about animals and should respect them.

 

[dprince]

That's not disturbing it's the circle of life. Here in canada if a gecko hatched fullyformed, or no eylids and has no chance of life I'm sorry but thats one meal were not paying for. I think each country has there own ways of doing things so to speak, Europe for an example mixes species, canada has one less meal to pay for. Respect what nate did, I did it last year as well with a friends monitor and my baby leos that had no chance.

Just because it's the "circle of life" doesn't mean we need to have it shoved in our faces. Out of RESPECT on a LEOPARD GECKO SITE, photos of that nature don't belong here. Sounds like Nate kinda knew that when he stated "I do not think that it was necessary to post the second picture, and I also do not see what the big issue is."

I do know of SEVERAL big breeders here in the USA who "cull" their imperfect leos. Some of them feed them to other carnivores. That is their choice, as it is anyone elses - including Nate's. You will also not find them posting photos of it, or flaunting it, on THIS site. THAT is the point.

For the record, I personally believe in humane euthanasia as a last resort.

 

[PacHerp]

Thank you, Debbie. Very well said.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

That's not disturbing it's the circle of life.

I can understand this. I know many USA breeders who feed deformed neonates to their other reptiles. But, I really don't want to see it. Everybody here on GeckoForums.net knows I'm a wuss when it comes to my animals, and I could never kill an animal by allowing it to be eaten... I don't even feed pinkie mice to my geckos for that reason. I don't pass judgement on others who do, but I don't want it thrown in my face photographically without prior warning.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

http://www.reptilescanada.com/forums/showthread.php?p=225611&posted=1#post225611

this emphasizes my thoughts, there ARE differences between our cultures.

-Nate

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

I can understand this. I know many USA breeders who feed deformed neonates to their other reptiles. But, I really don't want to see it. Everybody here on GeckoForums.net knows I'm a wuss when it comes to my animals, and I could never kill an animal by allowing it to be eaten... I don't even feed pinkie mice to my geckos for that reason. I don't pass judgement on others who do, but I don't want it thrown in my face photographically without prior warning.

I do apologize about not warning people, again. I Did not see it as 'graphic", which is why i did not label it as that. but I do respect peoples opinions on this.

-Nate

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Nate, I am NOT about to let this thread turn into a USA vs. Canada debate. You will LOSE. If this continues, I will simply close this thread.

 

[eric]

Not cool ,not cool at all! RoyalCityReptiles not cool! i feel this is an attack on geckoforums.net i wouldn't go on to an Anole based website and post Anoles being eaten!! disgusting and very low class. you need help!!

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

I first clicked on this thread to see if I could get some insight about a particular deformity that showed up in a hatchling. What I ended up finding was a gruesome picture of a gecko who was obviously about to be "devoured alive". This, my friend, cannot be compared with people posting images of feeding their snakes, leos, and other animals.
The animal was hardly "devoured alive", the animal is clearly not healthy. Secondly, when a scorpion encounters a prey item that large, it is rather quick to immobilize it. Before you blatently ignorant comment, make sure you have the facts.

The fact of the matter is, consideration should have been given to your audience. I do agree with this, as I have stated several times.

With the most respect, I do have one question. How can one keep leopard geckos, incubate their eggs, hatch them, and then as soon as one hatches less that perfect, just throw it away to be devoured alive? I just can't understand this state of mind... maybe I just care too much about these beautiful creatures.I love how the majority of the people on here have attempted to make me out to be some sort of monster. The animal was half dead, had disfigured eyes, AND is worth how much cash (which would buy food for my other animals to help keep the healthy animals alive, BTW) and people are still acting like I did this to get my jollies off, and to upset a whole website! I destroyed the animal because I didn't think ther was a reason to prolong it's suffering.

so before someone else posts on here about how vile my decisions were, make sure you read every post very carefully.

I have maintained a professional attitude throughout this whole debate, but this has turned into an all out attack on me, for a temporary lapse in judgement.

-Nate

 

[Val]

I think at this point we should just drop the "humane" portion of this thread and continue on with how to best avoid defects in captive bred leopard geckos. If it contines, the thread will be closed.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Nate, I am NOT about to let this thread turn into a USA vs. Canada debate. You will LOSE. If this continues, I will simply close this thread.

not turning this into a USA vs Canada thing, I am showing that I am not the only person who believes there was nothing wrong with my decision

-Nate

 

[KelliH]

OK, calm down everybody. This discussion is going downhill fast. Just drop it, please.

 

[eric]

OK but you POSTED IT!!!!! on a gecko based forum!