eye abscess - help!

[evolutiongoneastray]

background: so i waited a good month before my pet store would let me bring him home due to his eye, which was swollen shut and disgusting. after a month, they called me and told me i could get him for fifteen (which was rather nice because originally they had wanted sixty). the lady there had been soaking him in warm water every other night and put a bit of kitten eye antibiotics in his eye.
i don't feel like it is a serious health issue - he's been eating regularly and acting normal, though he does try to wipe it out on the glass of his cage. i've been simply dropping lukewarm water on his eye. he shed about a week ago, and the abscess doesn't look better, nor does it look worse.
i was hoping for some general information on what steps to take to help the bugger out, since i do realize that it bothers him.

also, i assume he's a blizzard of some sort, but if someone could give me a definitive answer; i'd feel educated.

ps: i apologize that the pictures are awful.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

He needs a qualified reptile vet.

 

[Dimidiata]

i agree, what scares me is that she was using a product not made for reptiles and more then likely not qualified for them either.

 

[evolutiongoneastray]

i was actually rather confused as to why she decided to put kitten antibiotics in his eye; and in the two weeks i've had him home, he's really improved (less lethargic and eating extremely well). of course, she also tried to gouge it out with a q-tip for a few nights (until she read somewhere online that she shouldn't be doing that). though i love my pet store and their employees dearly, simply because they do really care about the animals. i was really hoping you all would be like, oh that's this and this and all you have to do is something super easy and cheap, but yeah, i assumed i'd be making that fateful google search and making numerous calls.

 

[lillith]

Well, glad you came here, and welcome.
However, that eye actually looks pretty infected (*not an official diagnosis!), and what concerns me is that it looks to be a fairly internal sort of infection, not on the surface.
Abscesses that are internal like that can worsen, and eventually put pressure on both the eye and the nervous system. Eventually, without treatment, they can possibly be fatal.

You'll want to find a vet that will attempt to get a swab and do a culture & sensitivity test; you don't want a vet randomly throwing antibiotics at something like this. They could also get a better look at what anatomy is involved, whether it is within the eye or just the socket, or what.

It seems like the store you got him from had their heart in the right place, but antibiotics for mammals used on reptiles isn't good...things metabolize differently, a lot of things that are not toxic to mammals can be for reptiles (although this is an oversimplification).

I hope you find a good vet soon! Update us after your visit...in the meantime, I would keep it hydrated like you've been doing and not mess with it too much. Keep you handling extra sanitary, no use having it spread to the other eye. I wish you much luck!

 

[sausage]

Your gecko is lovely! I love the pic of him in the dish soo cute.
I agree as always that the best thing to do for him would be to see a qualified herp vet. if your worried about money most places will arrange a payment plan for you.
Even though you love your pet shop you just don't know what sort of damage they have done by poking it around and especially by administering the wrong meds :S
Do the best thing for your beautiful gecko and seek medical attention.
Keep us posted and good luck

 

[Aurorae]

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear that your gecko has problems with his eyes. Unfortunately I can't really tell much from that photo but it doesn't look too good. Do you have any other photos? Does the eye appear to have a huge eyedrop covering it at times, which can be wiped away? Do the eyelids ever fuse? I'm guessing this affects one eye and not both? Has the eye always been like this? Also, your gecko appears to be a blazing blizzard - if it was a blizzard it'd more likely have snake eyes. I cannot tell from the colour as I usually would as the photos don't allow. This is also likely to be a bell blazing blizzard over a tremper as bell strains are more common, at least where I am from. However more to the point, many advanced reptile vets have a hunch that the infections could be linked to photosensitivity. This isn't proven, but is a case for recurrent eye infections. If this is a one off, your gecko could may have been unlucky and it may heal with the adequate specialist veterinary treatment.

Secondly with all respect I have to fundamentally disagree with some of the statements made on the use of "kitten antibiotics" and medications used for mammals. I understand that its a bit weird that a medication for cats could be used on leopard geckos. But please don't be alarmed right away without considering that most medications for animals in general were formulated and produced for humans, and then over the years that humans have actually kept pets, those same medications have had their dosages and sometimes ingredients adapted for safe usage in animals.

Let me illustrate this with examples:

1) Clomicalm. This is an anxiety drug for dogs and cats, and this company brands it for specific use in these specific animals. Now if we look at the active ingredient, Clomipramine hydrochloride, we find that this is actually Clomipramine the tricyclics antidepressant, widely used in humans right across the USA and Europe. This company has adapted the dosage to make this human medication useful for animals.

2) Metacam - a painkiller for cats, dogs, small mammals. If you go on their website, this particular brand promotes the drug for these animals in particular. The active ingredient is meloxicam, an NSAID painkiller like ibuprofen and diclofenac, a human drug adapted for veterinary use. This drug may have dogs and cats all over the advertising and have "oral suspension for cats" written on the box, but it is safe and licensed for use in reptiles, including leopard geckos.

3). Exocin, a brand of antibacterial eyedrops. Active ingredient: Ofloxacin. This is a medicine used in opticians across the USA and Europe and also by ophthalmologists for bacterial eye infections. Surprise surprise, it is one of the most common prescriptions of eyedrops for such conditions in reptiles in the UK and USA, including leopard geckos.

I could go on for hours telling you about mammal medications which are used for reptiles..but I won't I hope these examples have illustrated that medicines aren't always reptile-specific, ie. that medications used in reptiles werent always created for reptiles, but more adapted to suit them. A drug like Exocin can help combat a human eye infection just as it can a gecko infection. These drugs have been trialled for veterinary usage and adapted accordingly. Remember, exotic animal keeping is relatively new from the perspective of the domestic veterinary world - not all vets are trained for practising reptile medicine as they simply haven't seen enough of them, not to mention that society still rejects the idea of domesticising reptiles.. As the hobby gets bigger, exotic veterinary medicine and knowledge will advance and that can only be a good thing. Drugs don't have to be, and never will be, designated for use in only one animal, so don't be alarmed when this happens. Veterinary trials are carried out to ensure your reptile is safe and no qualified veterinarian will prescribe something that will be deemed harmful to your pet.

Obviously I haven't a clue what antibiotics were prescribed to your leopard gecko so I can't comment but I'm pretty sure there was nothing untoward going on there. However, it is always a better bet to visit a reptile vet rather than your standard domestic vet do let me know the answers to my questions in the first half of my post, if you wish, and I'd be incredibly happy to help x

 

[Dimidiata]

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear that your gecko has problems with his eyes. Unfortunately I can't really tell much from that photo but it doesn't look too good. Do you have any other photos? Does the eye appear to have a huge eyedrop covering it at times, which can be wiped away? Do the eyelids ever fuse? I'm guessing this affects one eye and not both? Has the eye always been like this? Also, your gecko appears to be a blazing blizzard - if it was a blizzard it'd more likely have snake eyes. I cannot tell from the colour as I usually would as the photos don't allow. This is also likely to be a bell blazing blizzard over a tremper as bell strains are more common, at least where I am from. However more to the point, many advanced reptile vets have a hunch that the infections could be linked to photosensitivity. This isn't proven, but is a case for recurrent eye infections. If this is a one off, your gecko could may have been unlucky and it may heal with the adequate specialist veterinary treatment.

Secondly with all respect I have to fundamentally disagree with some of the statements made on the use of "kitten antibiotics" and medications used for mammals. I understand that its a bit weird that a medication for cats could be used on leopard geckos. But please don't be alarmed right away without considering that most medications for animals in general were formulated and produced for humans, and then over the years that humans have actually kept pets, those same medications have had their dosages and sometimes ingredients adapted for safe usage in animals.

Let me illustrate this with examples:

1) Clomicalm. This is an anxiety drug for dogs and cats, and this company brands it for specific use in these specific animals. Now if we look at the active ingredient, Clomipramine hydrochloride, we find that this is actually Clomipramine the tricyclics antidepressant, widely used in humans right across the USA and Europe. This company has adapted the dosage to make this human medication useful for animals.

2) Metacam - a painkiller for cats, dogs, small mammals. If you go on their website, this particular brand promotes the drug for these animals in particular. The active ingredient is meloxicam, an NSAID painkiller like ibuprofen and diclofenac, a human drug adapted for veterinary use. This drug may have dogs and cats all over the advertising and have "oral suspension for cats" written on the box, but it is safe and licensed for use in reptiles, including leopard geckos.

3). Exocin, a brand of antibacterial eyedrops. Active ingredient: Ofloxacin. This is a medicine used in opticians across the USA and Europe and also by ophthalmologists for bacterial eye infections. Surprise surprise, it is one of the most common prescriptions of eyedrops for such conditions in reptiles in the UK and USA, including leopard geckos.

I could go on for hours telling you about mammal medications which are used for reptiles..but I won't I hope these examples have illustrated that medicines aren't always reptile-specific, ie. that medications used in reptiles werent always created for reptiles, but more adapted to suit them. A drug like Exocin can help combat a human eye infection just as it can a gecko infection. These drugs have been trialled for veterinary usage and adapted accordingly. Remember, exotic animal keeping is relatively new from the perspective of the domestic veterinary world - not all vets are trained for practising reptile medicine as they simply haven't seen enough of them, not to mention that society still rejects the idea of domesticising reptiles.. As the hobby gets bigger, exotic veterinary medicine and knowledge will advance and that can only be a good thing. Drugs don't have to be, and never will be, designated for use in only one animal, so don't be alarmed when this happens. Veterinary trials are carried out to ensure your reptile is safe and no qualified veterinarian will prescribe something that will be deemed harmful to your pet.

Obviously I haven't a clue what antibiotics were prescribed to your leopard gecko so I can't comment but I'm pretty sure there was nothing untoward going on there. However, it is always a better bet to visit a reptile vet rather than your standard domestic vet do let me know the answers to my questions in the first half of my post, if you wish, and I'd be incredibly happy to help x

This may be so but dossage streangth, how often it should be administrated and the fact that they eye issue may not have been bacterial in the first place are all factors. On the farm we use a dog wormmer with all our animals(aside goats and cattle) the company and vets have come up with the dossaging and mixing recipes needed for the individual animal species. between a chicken and a rabbit (both the same size in our case) there is a large diffrnece in administration of the med. So the administration of a AntiBac made for kittens and its use on the leo would be diffrent, REGARDLESS the employee shouldnt have treated with out vet imput first. Obviously they ment well, and it may be that the med didnt hurt the animal, the bottom line was that if it wasnt made for geckos or had been modified/had be come common use for geckos it shouldnt have been used.

Not to mention this was over the counter kitten meds from the store. Unless its a simple easy issue i wouldnt administer meds without a vet and a experinced keepers approvel. Many over counter meds simply are crap. then again some are ok.

 

[evolutiongoneastray]

sorry for taking so long to get back to you. the vets i have spoken to seem to think it was caused from sand getting in his eye and his body creating the abscess to seal it? it definitely looks like it could be wiped away, but my gecko and myself have been unsuccessful in this attempt. it seems to get worse before

and better after he sheds. i thought they might have been fused together, but he is still able to open his eye

. it's just his right eye. personally, i don't believe that it is a virus (only one eye, only symptom) or a bacterial infection (it hasn't spread and i did attempt to grow a few cultures, which didn't show any legitimate results).

 

[katie_]

Looks more of a wound than a viral infection. Eyes are a very tricky thing. Poor guy

 

[sausage]

could the vet not remove it then?

 

[Aurorae]

However this happened, it really is a job for the vets and this will definitely need one or several courses of antibiotics before it can even attempt to heal. I know it's really tempting to wipe these liquids and splodges away, especially when they can stand so far off the surface of the eyeball (conjunctiva). However, it really isn't wise to be poking about at this stage. Have the vets decided not to treat this or was this just advice they gave you? He really needs a treatment plan. It may be some form of lesion which is creating such an abundance of blood on the surface of the eye, which would support the theory that something may have grazed against it. Has the third eyelid come down at all, that you know of? Is the blood on the surface exclusively or do you feel it is ''in'' or ''behind'' the surface? It looks like a dullish off-white colour? There are viral infections that can cause lesions and eye trauma but again, only a vet can confirm this. I don't feel swayed towards the abscess opinion. If you do decide to take any action yourself, although not recommended, the best you could do is to use an eye dropper or small syringe and drop a few drops of distilled water in the eye once a day. There is no way of telling how bad or minor this problem is without a proper vet examination, I really don't want to speculate based on one photo, it wouldn't be right. Reptile ophthalmology is still a young field of research, so don't expect many answers unless you meet a qualified reptile vet who can take a proper look. Do feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

Oh and one more thing, that first photo you took of the top left hand corner of the eye - any chance of getting another photo with the eye open as well? I appreciate it's difficult and probably very upsetting for you to have to keep taking photos but I'd really like to help this little one out...reminds me of my own little blazer!

Dimidiata, sorry for the late reply I went away for christmas. I did mention dosage in my post, but it's not so much the ''strength'' but the ''concentration'' and dilution. of course the preparation may be different between cats and leopard geckos but there was nothing in the original post to suggest that the woman who was administering the anti-biotics hadn't been directed by a vet, or vice versa...nothing was said about whether or not the woman had sought veterinary advice or the meds were non-prescription. I think maybe I got the linguistic end of the stick on a previous post, either way I'm glad there's some good input for this member's poor little gecko

 

[evolutiongoneastray]

getting him to open his eye is quite the task, for multiple reasons.

i'll definitely be keeping you all posted.

why is finding a decent vet so hard...? does anyone know of one in minnesota?

 

[snared99]

Eye infections in geckos have such a wide range of causes and it is very difficult to narrow them down unless you are seeing a qualified REPTILE vet. It can range from a tiny piece of left over shed to crypto. Parasites can also cause a eye infection. The problem with eye infections is they are tough to get controlled and take a long time to heal in some cases. But the severity of the issue should not be underestimated. A infection in the eye can spread to the brain and CNS system via the optic nerve. I would definitely try to locate a good reptile vet, I know one in Wisconsin if you want to drive...lol

 

[katie_]

getting him to open his eye is quite the task, for multiple reasons.

i'll definitely be keeping you all posted.

why is finding a decent vet so hard...? does anyone know of one in minnesota?

Many vet schools teach very little about reptiles, and its on the vet themselves to learn on their own. Which little have any interest in doing.

 

[evolutiongoneastray]

i can tell that you all want to be helpful, but you're just telling me that i need to take him to arizona...
seriously though, finding a vet should really not be this difficult. if i'm willing to pay someone just to look at his eye, that person should probably just exist.

 

[lillith]

Try one of these? The link for this list was up in the "sticky" area of the Health & Medications section. Use the resources!

Blaine
Dr. Jina Andrews
Central Bird & Animal Hospital
13060 Central Avenue Northeast
Blaine, MN 55434
Tel: (763) 785-2700
Fax: (763) 862-0090
[Website]
Comments:

Bloomington
Stephen Barghusen, DVM
Pet Crossing Animal Hospital
4015 West Old Shakopee Road
Bloomington, MN 55437
Tel: (612) 884-8248
Comments:
Dr. Barghusen's love is frogs, but he sees all reptiles. He is pretty good and great to talk to. He is easy to work with and has an open mind. I think there are other vets with more in depth knowledge about reptiles, but he is eager and willing to learn and great for basic needs...fecal checks, xrays etc..

Howard Lake
The Housecall Veterinarian
P.O. Box 336
Howard Lake, MN 55349
Tel: (612)636-8038
Fax: (320)286-3277

Comments:
Dr. Shelton sees most every herp, and she does housecall's, really great for my BIG snakes. She is willing to consult with other vets when something is unusual, too. Which is way better than other vets I worked with who just muddled through on their own. She goes into the cities and way out into a lot of the burbs. She owns her own iguana too.

[B]Inver Grove Heights[/B]
John A. Newman, DVM
Southview Animal Hospital
32 West Mendota Road
Inver Grove Heights, MN 55077
Tel: (651) 455-2258
Comments:
This guy heads the University of Minnesota Herp department. He is very knowledgeable and is one of the best known herp vets in Minnesota.

[B]Lake Elmo[/B]
Anna Ulfeng, DVM
John Baillie, DVM (Medical Director)
Cedar Pet Clinic
3417 Lake Elmo Avenue
Lake Elmo, MN 55042
Tel: (651) 770-3250
[Website]
Comments:
[B]
Minneapolis[/B]
John W. Baillie, DVM
Cedar Pet Clinic
3604 Cedar Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55407
Tel: (612) 721-7431 [Website]
Comments:

Dr. Alt
Central Animal Hospital
2700 Central Avenue Northeast
Minneapolis, MN 55418
Tel: (612) 781-6941
Comments:
This is the first herp vet I have had an experience with, and it was DEFINITELY a positive one. I brought my new BP to her for a checkup. She was very helpful, making sure I knew the proper husbandry aspects.

[B]New Brighton[/B]
Dr. David LoGuidice, DVM
Ark Pet Hospital PA
151 Silver Lake Road, NW
New Brighton, MN 55112
Tel: (651) 633-0567

[B]
Saint Cloud[/B]
Janell Osborn, DVM
Saint Cloud Animal Hospital
300 Lincoln Ave NE
Saint Cloud, MN 56304
Tel: (320) 251-2494
Comments:
BM - Dr. Osborn is a very enthusiastic and dedicated vet. She has a good medical knowledge of herps and is very easy to work with. (02/25/01)
This vet is constantly learning and striving to meet the demands of ever changing veterinary requirements. If there is something she does not know, she will find it out in a timely manner. She is an excellent surgeon. She once stitched up an Iguana that was attacked by a ferret. She specializes in herps as well as feline, canine, birds, and large animals. (07/23/04)
[B]
Saint Paul[/B]
Dr. Troye
Como Park Animal Hospital
1014 North Dale Street
Saint Paul, MN 55117
Tel: (651) 487-3255
Comments:
Email - This clinic is a wonderful resource for reptile care, besides the more common pets such as cats, dogs, and birds. I'm so thankful I found them. They have nursed the sick water dragon I adopted back to health. Staff people own reptiles as well as offer advice.
[B]
South St. Paul[/B]
Dr. David Abramowicz DVM
South St Paul Animal Hospital
501 Concord Street North
South Saint Paul, MN 55075
Tel: (651) 455-5897
[Email] [Website]
Comments:
Former student of Dr Newman; Dr Newman has been retired for several years now, and lives in Georgia. Vet self-recommended

Janell Osborn, DVM
South St. Paul, MN
Tel: (651) 455-6540
Comments:
This vet does house calls only. She also studied under John A. Neuman and often uses his facilities to do her tests and lab work. She is a bit pricy since she charges for mileage, but I have also found her to be the most up to date on new medical procedures and to have the most connections to other vets to find answers to medical problems.

Other links:
[URL="http://www.reptilevetsnearyou.com"]http://www.reptilevetsnearyou.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/vet-listing.aspx"]http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/vet-listing.aspx[/URL]
[URL="http://www.anapsid.org/vets/minn.html"]http://www.anapsid.org/vets/minn.html[/URL]

 

[geckochick89]

the petstore lady was probably using terramycin, which is sold as an eye treatment for cats/dogs, but I know that most vets use that first whenever leos have small eye issues. Terramycin is recommended for leos, even though it says its for cats, so don't just assume that they are using the wrong medicine.

 

[Smokin139]

My leo also has some sort of eye problem. it doesnt look as big or distinguished as evolutions leo, but it seems to bother him. He keeps it closed when he isnt eating or doing much, while the other stays open. It is barely noticable unless you look very close, it is clear or the same color as the eye. From what i have read so far im guessing i should find a vet. I will start searching in my area. Thanks