Frozen/thawed question

[katie_]

Pretty sure freezing won't kill anything but the rodent. If it has a parasite or a disease it's going to have it once it's thawed out anyway.

I feed frozen too because mine always eat. But if your that worried about throwing them away you can always do live and Knock it out before you feed.


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Sounds like youve been very lucky. I know many others who have not.
Since Ive witnessed it first hand,and many times it ends in a euthanized pet - I'm not wiling to take that chance, no matter how little it may seem.

 

[katie_]

Hey Kate. I have this issue too, unfortunately there is only one way to deal with it in my experience, either keep trying to get them to eat or toss it. Its just one of those sacrifices us snake keepers have to face. Though, i feed my smaller boa first and if she absolutely refuses to eat then it goes to my bigger king snake. That way either the king eats it or doesn't and doesn't get a large mouse thawed out. ANYONE who would like to discuss the absolute IRRESPONSIBILITY of feeding live without good reason can take it up with my teachers king snake, who WHILE WE ALL WATCHED was bitten by a mouse. Unless you have your hand on the dang mouse when the snake bites it the mouse can always turn in less then a second and bite the snake, even after its been bit. Dont be stupid, feed frozen unless absolutely necessary. The op already expressed her feelings on the subject so drop it.

Sorry kate, best of luck to your snakes and yourself. Hope you dont have to waste anymore pups. Out of curiosity how often do you feed, how bigs the snake and what kind is it.

Didnt see your questions until now!
Shes a 2011, probably a late summer hatchling. Not very big.
I feed her every tuesday. She ate a f/t hopper the first week I got her, then a f/t rat pup.
She then refused food the next week, which I feel is normal because the rat pup was a large meal.
She has refused two more weeks in a row. I noticed a few days ago that her heat mat had stopped working. She was probably cold. I bought a new one and hope she gets her appetite back this Tuesday.

 

[Dimidiata]

Pretty sure freezing won't kill anything but the rodent. If it has a parasite or a disease it's going to have it once it's thawed out anyway.


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State your source. The FDA advises that any meat be frozen(i belive rodents count as meat) for atleast 24hrs at -30f or 1 week at temps of -4f In order to kill off parasites. That can be found on any FDA regulation site.
http://frozenmice.net/ Heres a little artical that lays frozen VS thaw out. Simply put, ones safer then the others. Just because you like watching your snake kill things doesnt mean you should feed live.
@kate, good thing ya found that XP. I hope her appitite comes back, keep us posted.

 

[Dimidiata]

Lol ive been jinxed. Word of advice, look at the snake before you thaw out dinner. I got the mouse ready and went to dig rio out of her usual hiding place only to find her in deep shed.

 

[katie_]

Lol ive been jinxed. Word of advice, look at the snake before you thaw out dinner. I got the mouse ready and went to dig rio out of her usual hiding place only to find her in deep shed.

I did the exact same thing tonight.
She was in the middle of it. Ugh!

 

[M_surinamensis]

State your source. The FDA advises that any meat be frozen(i belive rodents count as meat) for atleast 24hrs at -30f or 1 week at temps of -4f In order to kill off parasites. That can be found on any FDA regulation site.

Just a brief note, because there's some misinformation and misinterpretation flying around here...

Home freezers do not operate at temperatures that low. Commercial freezers used by businesses that produce frozen rodents for sale may or may not operate at temperatures that low, depending on the equipment being used.

Furthermore, the rate at which the temperature changes from body temperature of a rodent to frozen (and below freezing) has a great deal to do with the efficacy of freezing as a method of eliminating parasites and disease causing microorganisms.

Freezing will usually kill most of the nasty infectious agents that a rodent may be harboring but is not a method of guaranteeing the death of everything, every time. Some few parasites, bacteria and viruses (especially viruses) can survive a period of freezing temperatures intact. However since it is a comparatively small number of them and since it is effective against so many others, it's still a reasonable safety precaution to take while selecting the diet of most captive snakes. Especially with the added benefits of convenience, cost and the inability of the rodent to act defensively; though it does require some preparation of its own (like the use of a meat thermometer, depending on the method used to thaw the prey).

Of course, not everyone can get everything to eat frozen-thawed or even freshly prekilled prey. Although a reduction of anthropomorphism and some serious consideration of tease feeding as it related to instinctual triggers usually works for me; there are some animals which cannot be coaxed, tricked or triggered into eating anything except live. At which point it's a question of defining the conditions that determine success in a captive environment and determining what additional measures should be taken with regard to the individual and the potential propagation of similar traits and tendencies in future generations.

And there are some interesting arguments to be made for the enhanced digestive effects of hemotoxic envenomation of a live prey item with a functioning circulatory system, though these are always weighed against a lower caloric requirement and comparative lack of activity in captive ambush predators, that gets into the specific digestibility of various tissues... not really relevant right here and now though, I suspect.

 

[Dimidiata]

I should clarify, i was simly pointing out that freezing can kill parasites, not that our freezers were capable of those temps. The bottom line of it all is that frozenthaw has less risk then live in general. There are some snakes that simply refuse though, but i would immeadiatley run out and grab a live mouse the minute my snake decides doesnt eat a thawed one. As for the last paragraph, its intresting, id love to discuss it(ive come across the topic before) but unfortunetly i think that may be OT . Thankyou for correcting me.