Frustration

[Dace]

I've had my first leopard gecko now for about a month, and so far he has been nothing but trouble.

He's around 3-4 months (he might not be male but I'm just assuming for now). He was a beautiful creature when I first got him with a little chub in his tail, perfectly healthy.

Now I look at him and I feel like a failure, he's scrawny, lost so much weight he has a kink in his tail. He refuses to eat. After about a week of having him he started to go a bit pale and I thought "Ok, he's going to shed so that's why he hasn't eaten much for a day or two". But 3 weeks on and he still hasn't shed. I have tried everything foodwise and at the moment I'm having to hand feed him a few meal worms a day with the occasional wax worm thrown in. I can't feed him crickets by hand as I simply cannot catch them (I have dyspraxia, bad co-ordination).

I've found him recently laying in his water bowl which has concerned me, I thought it might be too hot so I turned the heating down overnight but when I woke the next morning I found him in there again and my heart sunk, I picked him out of there and he was freezing cold.

I'm reaching a point where I'm so desperate, I think all he needs to do is shed and he'll be fine but he has no energy at all.

I feel like there is literally nothing I can do any more... Any suggestions? If I can't find answers here then I'll take him to a vet as I'm thinking there's no "simple" solution to this because all the simple things have been tried and so far have failed.

 

[Dace]

About your leo:
- Sex - Unknown
- Age & Weight - 2-4 months, weight unknown
- How long have you owned your leo - 4-5 weeks
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend) - Specialist reptile store

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo - Every day
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. - Gets weirder every day, recently hanging over and laying in water bowl
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. - Not until I got him
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) - Normal
- When was the last time he/she went - Within the last day
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on - Described in post above

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size - 3x3ft
- Type (ex. glass tank) - Glass tank
- Type of substrate - Paper towels
- Hides, how many, what kind - 1 moist box, 1 hot hide
B) Heating
- Heat source - Heat lamp (60W red), Heat mat
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) 30-32 degrees on hot side, 24-26 cool side
- Method of regulating heat source - Keeping heat bulbs on/checking temperature (I have a 40W bulb for when it gets too hot)
- What are you using to measure your temps - Several thermometers on the viv wall
- Do you have any lights (describe) - 60W heat bulb and 40W heat bulb (interchangable)
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) - No others in tank
- Describe health, or previous problems - N/A

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet - Crickets were fine for the first week but since he hasn't been eating, meal worms and the occasional wax worm
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) - Meal worms always available.
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) - Hand feeding now, I have given him opportunities to hunt crickets every few days but he's not interested.
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) - None apart from calcium which I dip about 60-70%% of the worms I feed him in. I was gut loading my crickets with high nutrient bug food before.
- What are you gut loading food with - See above.

 

[Ozy]

OK. There are problems with your setup. Need to fix these ASAP. Get him a heat mat and put it on the bottom on one side of the tank and put his hot hide over it. Get rid of the lights. Leopard geckos need belly heat to properly digest their food. Also you need to get some Repashy Calcium Plus and dust every single insect he eats with it. You need to gutload your mealworms with Repashy Bug Burger. Basically the only nutrient you are giving him is calcium which he can't even utilize because he's not getting any D3. He needs a hide on the cool side of the tank. He's hanging over his water bowl because he's too hot, since there is no cool place to him to hide, also those lights dry the air out. The floor temp on the hot side should be 32-35. The cool side can be room temperature.

 

[Dace]

I have a heat mat underneath his hot hide, I said that. Also I said I turned the lights off overnight and I still found him in his water bowl (temperature was about 20 degrees) so that rules that out.
I understand he's not getting a lot of nutrition but like I said, he REFUSES to eat. Most attempts at any type of feeding fail and I do not have proper experience to be able to "force feed" which I don't necessarily agree with anyway. He was getting D3 when I was feeding him gut loaded crickets however like I said those aren't an option right now as he will not hunt them and I cannot catch them for him.

 

[OhioGecko]

Your cage is way too hot. Your air temps are 30-32, your floor temp is going to be much hotter from the heat mat and light. Get a probe thermometer and place it on the hottest spot in your cage for accurate temps. You should take Ozy's advice and get rid of the lights, leopard geckos can see red light! Is he an albino? If so the combination with the lights is why he can't hunt his food. Can you take a pic of your setup and gecko and post them?

 

[Ghostoftangerine17]

I'd like to see pics of the setup and leo as others have said.

Sounds like a severe situation so I'd recommend going to a vet.

 

[mörten]

Im sorry that you got off with a bad start with your leopard gecko I understand that you are very concerned and want what´s best for him. However, like the other said, his cage is TOO hot. Him hanging out in his water bowl is him telling you this.
Do you have a probe thermometer to measure ground temperatures? This is very important, as it is the ground temperature that should lie around 29 - 32 degrees celcius. Connect a thermostat to your UTH to make sure that the temperatures never become too hot. If you remove the lamps and only use the UTH, you can easily measure and control for the temperatures. Your main heat source should be the UTH to ensure he gets proper belly heat to digest his food. Besides being able to ensure he gets the right temperatures, the trmoval of the lamps helps the air to not dry out on moist and make your gecko will feel more secure, especially if he is a young gecko (geckos hide in the day from predators). He will need a cave on the cold side as well so that he has a cooler spot to feel safe on.

With that being said, the first thing I recommend you to do is to:

1. Remove the bright lamps (I made the same mistake of having both UTH and lamps, but when I got rid of the bright lamps, my gecko became soo much more eager on food)
2. Get a probe thermometer and a thermostat to your heat mat to make sure you get the right temperatures (if you dont alreasy have these).
3. Use a multivitamin with EVERY feeding (repashy calcium plus) so that he can get the vitamins he needs in order to shed properly and absorb the calcium (without D3 for example, he cannot use calcium). Should he continue to refuse to eat, you can gently take some multivitamin on a cotton swab and gently place it around his mouth so that he at least can lick it up.
4. Get him a cold cave.

These are the first things you can do to see if he improves. I really hope he gets better soon and wish you all the luck! Keep us updated on how he is doing

 

[Embrace Calamity]

1) What kind of thermometers are you using? If they're the analogs, they're very inaccurate. I wouldn't even trust the temps they're giving you. Get some digital thermometers and keep them on the floor of the enclosure.

2) Do not handle him unless necessary. Handling is stressful for reptiles, and though they may become more calm with it, it's still stressful and something we do for our own enjoyment. A gecko that isn't eating should be left alone unless absolutely necessary.

3) Agreed on ditching the red light. Geckos can see this much better than we can, and it's stressful for them to have their entire world bathed in red.

4) It does sound like the enclosure is a bit too warm if the temps you're getting are accurate. Also, there's no hide on the cool side for him to cool down, which you definitely need. Laying in the water bowl could mean he's dehydrated, so where is the humid hide placed in the enclosure? Does he ever use it? Do you use filtered or tap water?

5) If your gecko isn't eating on his own, dipping the crickets in calcium won't do him much good. Like was said before, he needs D3, along with other things. Depending on what you were gutloading with before, he could have a vitamin A deficiency that would affect his eyesight. I would recommend getting Repashy Calcium Plus and dusting the bugs in that.

A vet is a good idea though. We don't know what kind of condition he's in, so it's hard to say whether he's in very dire straits or not, but it's best not to wait until the last minute.

~Maggot

 

[Dace]

I didn't specify that the air temperature is no more than 26-28 degrees... "Too hot" "Too cold". Useless advice. There are a variety of temperatures in the viv and like I said TWICE I have tried turning the heat down and it's made no difference.
It's obvious that I'm not going to get any help for my specific problem here, general advice is not of any use to me.
Goodbye.

 

[Ozy]

Well then I feel sorry for your gecko. You can't even take advice to give it proper husbandry, so it's dying a slow and painful death. We are trying to help you. It amazes me what a jack ass you're being. For real. Here's a pic of my leo on the day I got her and here is a pic taken a few weeks ago. Just so you can see that my leo is THRIVING with nothing more than proper husbandry and the EXACT same advice I'm giving you is how I care for my girl. And we haven't just been saying "Too hot" "Too cold" EVERYONE has given you SPECIFIC temps and very SPECIFIC advice. IF you can't take the advice and give it proper husbandry then at least take it back to the store so it doesn't have to die a slow, painful and nasty death.

 

[ZombiGecko]

I didn't specify that the air temperature is no more than 26-28 degrees... "Too hot" "Too cold". Useless advice. There are a variety of temperatures in the viv and like I said TWICE I have tried turning the heat down and it's made no difference.
It's obvious that I'm not going to get any help for my specific problem here, general advice is not of any use to me.
Goodbye.

No, they stated the FLOOR temp is gonna be too hot, NOT air temp.. get a temp gauge with a probe and set it over the heat mat. Your cooking him if your not watching the FLOOR temperature...go get a lamp dimmer(available at most home depot or lowes stores) and use that to control the floor heat. If the floor temp is at the correct temp, you wont need the heat lamps period..

 

[Ozy]

+1 Amber

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I didn't specify that the air temperature is no more than 26-28 degrees... "Too hot" "Too cold". Useless advice. There are a variety of temperatures in the viv and like I said TWICE I have tried turning the heat down and it's made no difference.
It's obvious that I'm not going to get any help for my specific problem here, general advice is not of any use to me.
Goodbye.

We're trying to help your gecko here. When it comes to husbandry, everything is connected. Multiple small things - or even just one small thing - can have a huge impact. First, temps probably are a bit too high. Sitting in water means the gecko is dehydrated or too hot. Why would you sit in water? Then there's the red light, which is stressful. How would you feel if your world was all red? Then there's the fact that the gecko hasn't been getting all the nutrients it needs. Vitamin deficiencies make them lethargic, uninterested in eating, etc. Then there's the lack of a cool hide, which means the gecko can't cool itself down while feeling safe. They need places to feel safe. When you combine all of these things, it will result in a gecko that isn't going to thrive. You said you were frustrated, and I get that, but taking it out on us isn't going to do you or your gecko any good.

~Maggot

 

[mörten]

I didn't specify that the air temperature is no more than 26-28 degrees... "Too hot" "Too cold". Useless advice. There are a variety of temperatures in the viv and like I said TWICE I have tried turning the heat down and it's made no difference.
It's obvious that I'm not going to get any help for my specific problem here, general advice is not of any use to me.
Goodbye.

Ok Im sorry you feel that way. I am going to sum up and give you more specific advice. Please consider the advice as we are only trying to help you, not criticize you. Asking for help signals that you are open to advice from others. Here is a sum up of the CONCRETE advice in this thread to make your gecko better. If you wont try them out, then I agree that you should bring the gecko back to the store so that it does not have to suffer.

Here are some CONCRETE advice summed up from the thread:

1. Remove the lights as geckos do not want to be exposed during daytime . Do not start with turning the heat mat down, it will not result in a solution.
2. Use the UTH as your only heat source
3. Get a probe thermometer that measures FLOOR temperatures. The proper temperatures for leopard geckos are measured in FLOOR temperatures. The floor temperatures should lie around about 29-32 degress celcius on the hot side and around 20-24 degress celcius on the cold side. This can ONLY be measured by a probe thermometer and regulated by a thermostat. If you are measuring the air temperatues, you have to realize that the ground temperatures are much hotter . So having the "right" air temperatures does NOT mean that the floor temperatures are the "right" ones.
4. Dust his food with MULTIVITAMIN with every feeding. He needs these vitamins when held in captivity in order to function properly.
5. Keep the handling down to a minimum so that he does not get stressed
6. Give him a hide on the cold side. He is too hot and needs a safe place to cool down on

Do these things first and give your feedback then. You cant claim that the advice is useless unless you have actually tried it. You are not in a position to deem the advice useless as you are the one that are asking for help.

Again, good luck and I wish your gecko all the best!

 

[Ozy]

And the whole shedding thing.. There is NO WAY to make him shed. Leopard Geckos shed as they grow and he's obviously not growing. It's not a "if he just sheds he'll be fine" situation. He is obviously not doing well in the set up you have provided, so why not try something else? You can see Ozy was REALLY little when I got her. She shed in the first week I had her and shed consistently every 2 weeks for the first few months I had her. Now that she is pretty much grown up, she doesn't shed as much. I have never had ANY sort of frustration with Ozy. She is very easy to care for and I love her to pieces. She is easily the best little pet I've ever had.

 

[katie_]

Oh wow!
Such great advice and such a rude response!
We're all very sympathetic to your situation, we've probably all been there at one point. Dont take out your frustrations on those trying to help you.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I don't know why people bother to respond after such rudeness...sad for the gecko :/

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I don't know why people bother to respond after such rudeness...sad for the gecko :/

Because if changes aren't made, the gecko is going to die.

~Maggot

 

[mörten]

+1 Maggot

 

[acpart]

I'm closing this thread because the OP has not accessed our site since s/he posted "goodbye" so appears to have made good on the statement about not returning.

Aliza