Gecko running in circles

[Cammyron]

I dont suppose any of you have had Leo's that run around in circles, a bit like a dog chasing its tail. I've had mine nearly a year now, and it's become her 'thing'. She will do it about 20 times before she straightens up, and pretty fast too! It also seems to be at certain times in the day.

I was just wondering if it could potentially be a problem? It does look a little dumb, and I hope it isnt some kind of mental health problem. Has anyone else noticed this?

I thought it may be due to her small viv, it's only 20 gallons, but i dont have space for anything bigger.

Thanks for your opinions

 

[Tony C]

Does she happen to be an Enigma?

 

[Keith N]

If you post a pic it may help with identifying. You can also check out enigma syndrome and see what symptoms are if happens to be one.

 

[spykerherps]

I would say it sounds like you have an enigma. But pictures would help. It would not be dew to tarrarium size 20g is plenty large for a leo.

 

[Cammyron]

no pictures available, but i can confirm that she is definitely an enigma...

just done some research and found someone else wrote this:

"Some start spinning at the slightest stimulus, which makes it very hard to feed them. I don't know if this applies to all enigmas with issues, but mine seems to have a hard time learning what things are for (doesn't sleep in hides, doesn't eat from dish, doesn't drink from water dish or lick calcium dish...), loses balance easily, has bad aim, lays eggs without having mated... I know at least another case which is as bad as mine."

Seems like i've got a struggle on my hands. I too find her very difficult to feed, she has no idea what a feeding bowl or water bowl or hides or calcium dish is. She's my first gecko too, hence the confusion. Well, at least i know what's wrong with her. I wonder if the guy who sold me her would be interested in swapping her back for something a bit more manageable. I love her to bits, but she's just a bit much for me to manage by myself

 

[Palor]

The guy who sold her to you should of at least warned you that she has full blown enigma syndrome. Some people have no ethics.

 

[Tony C]

The guy who sold her to you should of at least warned you that she has full blown enigma syndrome. Some people have no ethics.

They may not have known since "enigma syndrome" often presents later in the geckos life, ovulation seems to be a common trigger. I do agree that they should come with a warning about the possibility of neurological issues at some point in their life.

 

[Cammyron]

Apart from the circling and losing balance, she doesn't really seem too upset about life. I dont suppose anyone knows how to tell if a gecko is actually suffering (quality of life) from this condition.

My problem lies in the fact that she is my first leo, none of my friends have lizards either so I have absolutely no experience to base her behaviour upon. I have tried to read so much in the past year to understand these wonderful creatures, but as I'm sure you can imagine, her behaviour has been way off what the literature describes.

The breeder has been very helpful. He said that "the only issue agreed at the moment is if they have no quality of life then it may be best to PTS".

He has also said he would be happy to give me a good deal on another gecko, but I'm not even sure about getting another one now. Apart from enigma's, are there any other types of gecko's out there with congenital abnormalities? Seems I threw myself in at the deep end, perhaps I should just stick to the good old wild type next time

 

[sunshinegeckofarm]

Enigmas are the only ones I have seen with the congenital abnormalities. Yes there is geckos hatched with defects such as kinked tails, missing or small eye or eyes, underbite/overbite, club tail, etc etc. but generally they live decent lives as pets only. Don't be scared away from leos, if the breeder is willing to trade for another leo that does not have problems then go for it just dont get another enigma. I myself am debating breeding enigmas after this year they are beautiful but its just too sad to see babies die for no reason since i had none of my enigma babies survive thusfar. i much rather focus more on my other projects than try to breed enigmas.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

The guy who sold her to you should of at least warned you that she has full blown enigma syndrome. Some people have no ethics.

+1

 

[Quantumhigh]

Iam just starting to breed Leos myself currently 11eggs baking thus far (First time breeder SSxTremper). Ive been doing some reading and research around and it just amazes me some of these breeders ethics. Seem to me that the enigma's are a dead end road. Why would breeders take the chance to produce an animal that has a more then 50% chance it will show a nerological disorder. Yet still knowing a healthy looking enigma still carries genes to this disorder. Still sold and can rebreed into the gene pool.

I personally will never own a enigma for this reason or do business with any breeders that support the enigma gene; as beautiful as they are its ethically wrong.

Take this fellow story into account and how many more there are like his. First time having a leopard gecko as a pet and some irresponsible breeders knowingly sold a animal that has a very high chance to have a genetic disorder of somekind. What does that do to the breeders reputation and what does that do for the species. Both are negative for the leopard gecko communitys everywhere. People will be turned off to even owning a Leo. Hopefully some breeder will read this out there and stop breeding them. It only makes sense.

 

[Cammyron]

Thanks for the help. Things have been easier the past few days now that I can explain her strange behaviour. I was wondering too whether she would be safe to be housed with another female.

Surely what she has isn't contagious and she doesn't need to be quarantined, right? Is a 20 gall tank pushing it a bit for two geckos?

Cheers

 

[Tony C]

Thanks for the help. Things have been easier the past few days now that I can explain her strange behaviour. I was wondering too whether she would be safe to be housed with another female.

Surely what she has isn't contagious and she doesn't need to be quarantined, right? Is a 20 gall tank pushing it a bit for two geckos?

Cheers

"Enigma syndrome" is not contagious, nothing to worry about there. I would advise against housing her with another gecko, because of her issues she could have trouble getting enough to eat and would also be any easy target for bullying.

 

[roger]

Iam just starting to breed Leos myself currently 11eggs baking thus far (First time breeder SSxTremper). Ive been doing some reading and research around and it just amazes me some of these breeders ethics. Seem to me that the enigma's are a dead end road. Why would breeders take the chance to produce an animal that has a more then 50% chance it will show a nerological disorder. Yet still knowing a healthy looking enigma still carries genes to this disorder. Still sold and can rebreed into the gene pool.

I personally will never own a enigma for this reason or do business with any breeders that support the enigma gene; as beautiful as they are its ethically wrong.

Take this fellow story into account and how many more there are like his. First time having a leopard gecko as a pet and some irresponsible breeders knowingly sold a animal that has a very high chance to have a genetic disorder of somekind. What does that do to the breeders reputation and what does that do for the species. Both are negative for the leopard gecko communitys everywhere. People will be turned off to even owning a Leo. Hopefully some breeder will read this out there and stop breeding them. It only makes sense.

I agree with you 100 % Couldnt have said it better.It does not make any sense to breed enigmas knowing there is a good chance it would show enigma traits and then cull the animal when it shows severe traits.In my honest opinion that is wrong.People can make all sorts of argument for enigmas.Would we do that for any other animals ??

 

[roger]

Apart from the circling and losing balance, she doesn't really seem too upset about life. I dont suppose anyone knows how to tell if a gecko is actually suffering (quality of life) from this condition.

My problem lies in the fact that she is my first leo, none of my friends have lizards either so I have absolutely no experience to base her behaviour upon. I have tried to read so much in the past year to understand these wonderful creatures, but as I'm sure you can imagine, her behaviour has been way off what the literature describes.

The breeder has been very helpful. He said that "the only issue agreed at the moment is if they have no quality of life then it may be best to PTS".

He has also said he would be happy to give me a good deal on another gecko, but I'm not even sure about getting another one now. Apart from enigma's, are there any other types of gecko's out there with congenital abnormalities? Seems I threw myself in at the deep end, perhaps I should just stick to the good old wild type next time

Unfortunately you have been sold an animal that could possibly need special attention.This is the problem where a so called breeder sells to a first time leo owner without divulging all the facts..Don't be put off from owning another leo, this time make sure it is not an enigma

 

[Tony C]

Would we do that for any other animals ??

There are a number of genetic defects in common dog and cat breeds. Hip dysplasia in large dogs, breathing difficulties in bulldogs and persian cats, cancer in German Shepherds, a host of genetic abnormalities in modern Siamese cats, the list could go on forever. Any time we selectively breed animals we run the risk of encountering unintended consequences.

 

[STUTFL]

Would we do that for any other animals ??

I can't think of a single species we *wouldn't* do that for.
I'm not saying I like it, but that's how it is.

 

[roger]

There are a number of genetic defects in common dog and cat breeds. Hip dysplasia in large dogs, breathing difficulties in bulldogs and persian cats, cancer in German Shepherds, a host of genetic abnormalities in modern Siamese cats, the list could go on forever. Any time we selectively breed animals we run the risk of encountering unintended consequences.

I think we have had this discussion before ! You use the example of dogs.I know here in Canada that all breeders that are CKC sanctioned do not use defective dogs in their breeding stock. , but we are using defective enigmas in breeding offspring that shows defects.With all due repect you are talking apples and oranges

 

[BSM]

IMHO i dont think enigmas shouldn't be bred at all, who cares if it can make a leo more colorful and be worth more money. It doesn't make sense to bred an animal that will/can get the syndrome at any time in its life, as a few breeders said "one day they can be fine and the next day they have full blow enigma syndrome". I have had 3 enigmas and my results have not been good (2 out of 3) had enigma syndrome and out of those 2 one of them wont eat and died. Then i have one enigma that is perfectly fine and doesn't express the syndrome but that doesn't mean its babies wont so i will never bred enigmas ever. With people saying its unethical to sell enigmas without disclosing the fact that they can/most likely will not be normal, with that being said isn't it unethical to breed them in the first place.

just my 2 cents on the enigmas

 

[JordanAng420]

There are a number of genetic defects in common dog and cat breeds. Hip dysplasia in large dogs, breathing difficulties in bulldogs and persian cats, cancer in German Shepherds, a host of genetic abnormalities in modern Siamese cats, the list could go on forever. Any time we selectively breed animals we run the risk of encountering unintended consequences.

+1!!!

I think we have had this discussion before ! You use the example of dogs.I know here in Canada that all breeders that are CKC sanctioned do not use defective dogs in their breeding stock. ,

Wanna bet? I'll beg to differ. I've seen x-rays of said animals that say otherwise. I've worked with CKC, AKC and lots of other organizations. I've seen the "lemons" that are supposedly "CKC" or "AKC" certified. You can have a VERY poor animal and still be certified through these organizations.

With all due repect you are talking apples and oranges

With all due respect, no he's not.