Genetics Confusion

[PatHigdon]

I have talked talked to Kelli about part of this question and so far, she has been dead on accurate. But I am still confused on another part.

I bred my Eclipse het RAPTOR female to my APTOR het RAPTOR male.... So far I have gotten.... 1 RAPTOR, 1 weakly colored Jungle Albino & 2 normal banded Albinos. The RAPTOR & Jungle Albino came from the same pair of eggs. I watched the Eclipse lay the eggs. I would think out of 4 eggs that I should have at least gotten an Eclipse.

Am I off on my predictions? Also, will they all be het RAPTORS?? Multi-morphs have always confused me.

 

[100yan]

To get Eclipse hatchling from such crossing you should breed at least Eclipse x something het Eclipse. In your case, I am afraid you will not have an Eclipse baby, but all hatchlings will be het Eclipse.

In theory, you should have 25% of the hatchlings RAPTOR and 50% of the hatchlings het RAPTOR (not all of them). But in practice this percentige could be different.

 

[KelliH]

You do have a chance to produce an Eclipse from that pairing, absolutely. You must keep in mind that it is all based on probability, like rolling the dice or flipping a coin. For example, when you breed an Eclipse to a Het Eclipse, you have a 50% chance with each egg that hatches being an Eclipse.

 

[KelliH]

To get Eclipse hatchling from such crossing you should breed at least Eclipse x something het Eclipse. In your case, I am afraid you will not have an Eclipse baby, but all hatchlings will be het Eclipse.

In theory, you should have 25% of the hatchlings RAPTOR and 50% of the hatchlings het RAPTOR (not all of them). But in practice this percentige could be different.

I have to disagree because a Raptor is simply the Tremper Albino version of an Eclipse; the Raptor is visually expressing both traits. Take the albino out of the equation and he is breeding an Eclipse to a Het Eclipse, so it is very possible that he will hatch Eclipses from that pairing.

 

[PatHigdon]

OK, so the the RAPTOR will be Possible het Eclipse or het Eclipse? And the albinos will be possible het Eclipse & RAPTOR?

Predicting morphs has never been a strong suite of mine. I have gotten everything I was expecting this season, but an Eclipse.

Sorry for asking to many questions. I wish there was a better way to calculate this stuff.

 

[100yan]

Yes, indeed, you are right Kelli! Thanks!
But in this case I am curious what percentage of the babies are expected to be het Eclipse and what percentage, respectively - het RAPTOR?

 

[KelliH]

OK, so the the RAPTOR will be Possible het Eclipse or het Eclipse? And the albinos will be possible het Eclipse & RAPTOR?

Predicting morphs has never been a strong suite of mine. I have gotten everything I was expecting this season, but an Eclipse.

Sorry for asking to many questions. I wish there was a better way to calculate this stuff.

A Raptor IS an Eclipse. It is simply an albino version of one. So a Raptor cannot be Het for Eclipse because a Raptor IS an Eclipse.

All of your offspring will be 100% Het Eclipse because one of the parents is an Eclipse, so every baby will either be an Eclipse (or an albino Eclipse aka Raptor) or 100% Het Eclipse.

 

[PatHigdon]

A Raptor IS an Eclipse. It is simply an albino version of one. So a Raptor cannot be Het for Eclipse because a Raptor IS an Eclipse.

All of your offspring will be 100% Het Eclipse because one of the parents is an Eclipse, so every baby will either be an Eclipse (or an albino Eclipse aka Raptor) or 100% Het Eclipse.

OK I gotchya. Thanks Kelli!!

 

[KelliH]

OK I gotchya. Thanks Kelli!!

No problem dude. It does get very confusing!

 

[100yan]

A Raptor IS an Eclipse. It is simply an albino version of one. So a Raptor cannot be Het for Eclipse because a Raptor IS an Eclipse.

In the light of the above mentioned I've one more question (Sorry if it is an Off-topic but I'm still lurning ):

Ok, RAPTOR = Tremper Albino version of the Eclipse
and if so, I am a little bit confused by the term 'Eclipse het RAPTOR' (as stated into the first post of this thread) because I see it as 'Eclipse het Talbino Eclipse' which does not make sense for me - or should it be 'Eclipse het Tremper Albino'?

 

[TokayKeeper]

When it comes to recessive traits, the probable ratios are as follows:

Homozygous recessive x heterozygous = 1:1 (hets:homo. recessive, technically 2:2 but it reduces to 1:1)
Heterozygous x heterozygous = 1:2:1 (homo. dominant:hets:homo. recessive)
Homozygous dominant x heterozygous = 3:1 (homo. dominant:hets)
Homozygous dominant x homozygous recessive = 4:0 (all hets)

Dividing any of the numbers in a given ratio by four will give you the percent probability each genotype has of being displayed phenotypically; the exception is homo. recessive x het where one would divide by 2 since it's reduced.

 

[KelliH]

In the light of the above mentioned I've one more question (Sorry if it is an Off-topic but I'm still lurning ):

Ok, RAPTOR = Tremper Albino version of the Eclipse
and if so, I am a little bit confused by the term 'Eclipse het RAPTOR' (as stated into the first post of this thread) because I see it as 'Eclipse het Talbino Eclipse' which does not sence for me - or should it be 'Eclipse het Tremper Albino'?

Yes, the correct way to define it would be Eclipse Het Tremper Albino, NOT Eclipse Het Raptor. However, many time we herpers try to simplify, and that is the reason for the "Eclipse Het Raptor". I even do it sometimes.

 

[Tony C]

This is why I hate goofy names for combination morphs. There would be so much less confusion if the name RAPTOR had never existed and we just called them Tremper Eclipses...

 

[TokayKeeper]

This is why I hate goofy names for combination morphs. There would be so much less confusion if the name RAPTOR had never existed and we just called them Tremper Eclipses...

I was thinking of actually getting some and calling them Eclipsed Rainbows, which is what they really are. Rainbow pre-dates RAPTOR, circa 2002?

Behold, the power of the rainbow, compliments of K & N Reptiles' website...
http://knreptiles.com/available/Designer/a24.jpg

http://knreptiles.com/available/Albino/49.jpg

 

[KelliH]

LOL haven't you heard, the new name for the Rainbow is the Emerine.

 

[acpart]

Wouldn't you say that RAPTOR, as originally defined, is a little different from albino eclipse since there's also the tang color and the patternless stripe aspect?

I find the term "het raptor" to be unfortunate. Usually when we say "het" something, we're talking about 1 type of gene like the blizzard or albino trait. A raptor gecko is expressing a variety of traits including albino, eclipse, patternless stripe and tang. If it breeds, it can pass along all, some or none of these traits and the only way to get a raptor is to pass on all of the traits.

Aliza

 

[TokayKeeper]

LOL haven't you heard, the new name for the Rainbow is the Emerine.

Well, where's me lucky charms?! Wait! Wrong green under that rainbow.

 

[Thorgecko707]

Wouldn't you say that RAPTOR, as originally defined, is a little different from albino eclipse since there's also the tang color and the patternless stripe aspect?

I find the term "het raptor" to be unfortunate. Usually when we say "het" something, we're talking about 1 type of gene like the blizzard or albino trait. A raptor gecko is expressing a variety of traits including albino, eclipse, patternless stripe and tang. If it breeds, it can pass along all, some or none of these traits and the only way to get a raptor is to pass on all of the traits.

Aliza

Don't forget "het diablo blanco". The world makes me sad. I had one and it ended up not having Blizzard or eclipse. Just a plain albino.

 

[KelliH]

Wouldn't you say that RAPTOR, as originally defined, is a little different from albino eclipse since there's also the tang color and the patternless stripe aspect?

I find the term "het raptor" to be unfortunate. Usually when we say "het" something, we're talking about 1 type of gene like the blizzard or albino trait. A raptor gecko is expressing a variety of traits including albino, eclipse, patternless stripe and tang. If it breeds, it can pass along all, some or none of these traits and the only way to get a raptor is to pass on all of the traits.

Aliza

To complicate things even more (LOL), it is actually the APTOR trait that brings the tang and patternless stripe into the mix.

 

[100yan]

No dubt, this thread is really valuable, even hard to follow at some aspects (LOL)
Kelli, many thanks for the detailed explanations on the topic!