Grading Mack Snows

[rhac]

Hi everyone,

just a short idea:
How about grading Mack Snows? Like A-grade Mack Snow, B-grade Mack Snow and C-grade Mack Snow.
Why should one do that?

Well I really like Mack Snows and I think I'm not the only one here, even if there are other morphs now that catch the interest of everyone.
But it seems like Mack Snows becoming more and more degraded to a "way-to-create-the-Super-Snow". So it's not important how a Mack Snow looks. High-yellowish-Macks are sold for the same price as really nice white individuals.
Of course in some kind of way the Macks are a "way-to-create-the-Super-Snow". Of course I hope as well to produce some Supers this season with my Macks. But as I said I really like the Macks as well and I think they deserve to "stand on their own feet".

So if everyone starts to grade their Macks it might help to get a focus on the Macks, so that everyone tries to breed for really white Mack Snows.

So...this was just an idea (I hope you understand what I tried to say...). Would be nice if you post your opinions on that.
Anyway I'm glad to have two super nice A-grade Mack Snow females in my collection :main_yes:


Regards, Johannes

 

[Scott&Nikki]

I think I understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, the grade of A, B, C, etc in a qualitative measure is extremely subjective. What might be a B to one person, could be an A to another and a C to someone else. It is not like a class grade where a specific, determined number value stands for a certain letter grade. This will become a big problem when it comes to newbies that have not seen enough Mack Snows to judge what an 'A' would be. It would also be a problem with people selling them. They may advertise a 'C' grade as an 'A' or 'B' just to charge more. In theory it is a great idea. I just don't see how it will work.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I agree 100%. When I produce Macks (crossing my fingers for this year) they will be graded. I find it amusing people sell Macks that look like normals for the same price as the actual Snow looking Macks.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I think I understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, the grade of A, B, C, etc in a qualitative measure is extremely subjective. What might be a B to one person, could be an A to another and a C to someone else. It is not like a class grade where a specific, determined number value stands for a certain letter grade. This will become a big problem when it comes to newbies that have not seen enough Mack Snows to judge what an 'A' would be. It would also be a problem with people selling them. They may advertise a 'C' grade as an 'A' or 'B' just to charge more. In theory it is a great idea. I just don't see how it will work.

Using a grading system with any morph is subjective to each individual breeder. That's really not the issue. No one would be able to standardize a grading system. It's not logical. I will be using a grading system however, and while someone may not agree with my view on grading, I will use it.

 

[rhac]

Thank you for your opinions.

I think I understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, the grade of A, B, C, etc in a qualitative measure is extremely subjective. What might be a B to one person, could be an A to another and a C to someone else. It is not like a class grade where a specific, determined number value stands for a certain letter grade. This will become a big problem when it comes to newbies that have not seen enough Mack Snows to judge what an 'A' would be. It would also be a problem with people selling them. They may advertise a 'C' grade as an 'A' or 'B' just to charge more. In theory it is a great idea. I just don't see how it will work.

I got your point that misuse of this grading could be a probable consequence.
But with the line-bred-Snows the grading works as well. There will always be people who try to misuse things. But the people are not blind. So if a yellowish Mack is for sale as a A-grade-Mack and you for yourself would never call that one an A-grade-Mack-Snow you do not need to buy it or maybe you can bargain a better price with the breeder.
So subjective grading can always cause problems. Thank you very much for your opinion. I see that a grading might cause new problems. But I believe or better: I hope that a grading would work as good as with the line-bred-Snows.

Regards, Johannes

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Thank you for your opinions.


I got your point that misuse of this grading could be a probable consequence.
But with the line-bred-Snows the grading works as well. There will always be people who try to misuse things. But the people are not blind. So if a yellowish Mack is for sale as a A-grade-Mack and you for yourself would never call that one an A-grade-Mack-Snow you do not need to buy it or maybe you can bargain a better price with the breeder.
So subjective grading can always cause problems. Thank you very much for your opinion. I see that a grading might cause new problems. But I believe or better: I hope that a grading would work as good as with the line-bred-Snows.

Regards, Johannes

I guess what I was thinking was, just like you said, you can see for yourself. So I just don't see how grading would even be beneficial. I mean, if there are pictures of them all, why do you need to see a grade?

However, I am new to all of this and have not dealt with breeders or breeding myself. If this method works, then I'm all for it. I'm either missing something or I just personally don't see a use. Either way, good luck!

 

[bro paul]

It's funny, I was just talking to another breeder about this yesterday. I agree that Macks could/should be priced individually based on certain traits. I've seen some that are really interesting with lot's of yellow and lavender...and some that are stark white. I'd actually pay more for either...if they caught my eye. A "high white, hypo" mack would also really catch my attention. I feel the same way about any other trait/morph that offers a variety...and just about all of them do. Even structure could come into play at some point when pricing our geckos, but I don't know that many would notice (but it sure makes a difference in the crested market). Good topic Johannes.

 

[rhac]

I guess what I was thinking was, just like you said, you can see for yourself. So I just don't see how grading would even be beneficial. I mean, if there are pictures of them all, why do you need to see a grade?

The intention is to get the focus on the Macks.
If you breed for nicer Mack Snows and give them grades you show your buyers that you care how they look. So the buyer will start to focus more on the Macks as well. That's how people "work". Give it a cool name or a grade and people start to care. So the gradings offers a possibility to the breeder to show that he cares about producing nice Macks. (That may sound strange but I cannot explain it better with my english).
The buyer will always have the last choice, with or without a grading system.


Regards, Johannes

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Ahh... messing with people's minds. Haha im just kidding. Well hey, if it works, go ahead. Like I said, I like the theory and good luck with it.

 

[rhac]

Well hey, if it works, go ahead. Like I said, I like the theory and good luck with it.

Thx

Well but it is worth nothing if I start to grade my Macks. Nobody would care or even notice it. That's why I started this topic. To see if there are other people with the same opinion. And I see there are people who think like me about this topic. So if the big breeders start to grade their Macks there will be a bigger chance of success.

Regards, Johannes

 

[eyelids]

Good thread!

In my opinion Mack Snows and Mack Super Snows should've been named differently from the start. A lot of Mack Snows hardly look like line bred snows whether A, B, or C grade. The dominant form "Super Snow" fits the name perfectly. Mack Snows should've been called Mack Pastels or Het Super Snows. However, that can't happen since Alex Hue named the other Mack Line morph Mack Pastels. I don't even want to get started on them since that's a whole different topic...

I think the grading idea should be left out until they're consistently reproduced if you're going to breed for reduced color. If you're looking to produce true Snows with the Mack Line it'd be best to start with a male Super Snow and several female A grade Line Bred Snows. I think it'd be a great project and the with price of Super Snows now you could do it without selling a kidney.

My "F" grade Mack Snow... :main_rolleyes:

View attachment 3489

 

[preacherman]

Good topic! I like the idea of selectively breeding the Macks with the goal of producing high-contrast black and white animals. I think there are several on this forum, Jeanne for example, who are doing just that. However, I think the Macks can be taken in other directions that are just as promising. I have produced a couple of very cool looking Mack Snows that have a lot of spotting on the body. I have also produced a couple that have a gorgeous "pastel" coloration to them. To me, both of these variations of the Mack Snow are just as impressive as an all black and white Mack. The Mack Snow that Michael posted above is an awesome animal. But he's right, if we're grading strictly on the amount of color, then it would be an "F" grade animal. So again, working to produce high contrast black and white Macks is an awesome goal. But I think we're doing them an injustice if that is all we focus on.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I dont know, I mean the nice white ones(ones that have stayed white) are so random. I see your point though. It is a pretty good one.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Here lets see what kind of rating everyone will give this Mack Snow?

For reference, he is on white melamine, I probably did not have enough light.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Dan, my guess would be a C grade. I guessed that because its a fairly light yellow, but it is over most of the body. Now I'm interested to see if I am even close to right, haha.

 

[eyelids]

Here lets see what kind of rating everyone will give this Mack Snow?

For reference, he is on white melamine, I probably did not have enough light.

I'd say C as well. He's an awesome Mack though!

I strongly agree with everything Jason said.

 

[Kotsay1414]

At first I loved the idea, then I thought about it... I think it would cause pricing problems, ultimately affecting the price of Super Snows. If someone can get 2 grade D Mack Snows for cheap, they will still produce Super Snows. This will mean there are more Super Snows, thus dropping their price too.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Its just the picture I think, but this is as nice as they get. By your guys standards Im seeing here, there would be no A-grade unless it is a Super Snow.

In person he is the equivalent of a B grade(or higher) linebred. I mean he has the lavender parts that were once "bands" (more of a Jungle pattern though) that have a bit of yellow. The rest he is white.

Like I said the picture is slightly yellow, but the background is actually white. He matches it in color pretty much, but its because there isnt enough light.

 

[eyelids]

Ahhh I see. I said C because ultimately you'd look for pure white. He seems to be more of a cream color, but I'll take your word for it. Didn't you sell him?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Nope, even as nice as he is. Which has surprised the heck out of me. He is not super expensive, less than $250 shipping included. I mean I paid 1200+ for a plain Mack Snow before that was yellow. LOL

Its nice to have white Macks, but they are also simply the heterozygous form.