Halloween Mask

[pmkent1]

A little off topic but I just drove by a Shelby cobra. Lol!how weird is that?

Nothing wrong with asking questions, everyone is constantly learning here. I see what your getting at though. Leopard geckos are so muddled up that it's nearly impossible to know what you really have.

:main_laugh::main_laugh:

Thats awesome..lol

I wanted to make sure I didnt come across as accusing or pushy. I love to learn and debate and sometimes I have a habit of coming across that way. Nothing personal to anyone. Just picking brains..lol.

 

[Laska]

Technically Urban Gecko has there own Snow- Tug Snow which if Im correct was line bred and something went genetically right and wont produce super snows. I should have stated that info...

What I like about what I have is everything is showing... and/or is proven not to be "muddy" And as long as I keep all my records- I wont be dirtying the leo pool even more than it already is... Happy brain picking! lol

By the way your signature is interesting...

 

[pmkent1]

By the way your signature is interesting...

Thanks


Its an abbreviated version of one of my favorite quotes from C.S. Lewis

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

 

[Laska]

Cool cool... If this was facebook Id like the whole quote lol!

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Good to see the base of the point of this thread was discussed and made public. What this thread goes to show consumers is that YOU have the drivers seat so ask questions and challenge anything you are not 100% sure of. There are great breeders in this hobby and there are people who just want money and think reptiles is a way to facilitate that goal. Thanks again Chris and John for your pictures and information

 

[Laska]

Good to see the base of the point of this thread was discussed and made public. What this thread goes to show consumers is that YOU have the drivers seat so ask questions and challenge anything you are not 100% sure of. There are great breeders in this hobby and there are people who just want money and think reptiles is a way to facilitate that goal. Thanks again Chris and John for your pictures and information

Not a problem, honestly if it wouldn't have been brought out, some people still wouldn't know. So thank you for bringing it to light to be discussed!

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Ever year there are so many new breeders or people interested in breeding that a lot of morphs (especially polygenetic) should be discussed and have back history on them. Sad but no one will look at this thread if they have a question about them in 2 weeks.

 

[Laska]

Ill bump it Or add something to the general discussion forum. Sound Good?

 

[pmkent1]

Ever year there are so many new breeders or people interested in breeding that a lot of morphs (especially polygenetic) should be discussed and have back history on them. Sad but no one will look at this thread if they have a question about them in 2 weeks.

Thats why I was drawn to this thread. Its was an actual discussion. Not the normal "what morph is this" thread (no offense to the "what morph is this" people, Ive posted one or two myself)

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Would I be hijacking this thread if I posted some cool head patterns that are NOT Halloween Masks? LOL!!!

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Very nice Marcia. That's exactly what I was meaning by my Bold Stripes having the same head patterns.

 

[Laska]

Those last pics by marcia, clearly proves my thoughts on breeders doing full disclosures on genetics- now I will be honest- 2 of those leos I saw looked really really similar to HM's. And TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST and imo I would pay almost same prices for those Marcia as I have for HM's. Not because they are similar but the traits they carry I really like and I could most definitely use them for what I do. I think people cut themselves short sometimes on what they have with the prices they put on things. Marcia I looked at your prices and their the same as HM's much applause because the looks are worth it!... I see lots of bolds and Im not impressed but yours are what I call Bold!!!

Outstanding specimens of Bold Stripes right there!
I have to say this Marcia if you ever want to sell those I would be glad and proud to get one from you!

 

[Kristi23]

Thank you for posting this. It's hard to answer questions a lot of times. The HM crosses I work with came from Paul Allen and Eric. I don't have any pure Halloween Masks though. It's really cool to see the differences.

As for the phone number thing, I don't give out my number anymore. I like to keep everything in writing and had way too many people calling my house to ask geckos questions about geckos they got from other breeders. I also don't like talking on the phone much. So I wouldn't think it's bad that someone doesn't give out their personal info as long as they answer all the questions you have in an e-mail or pm.

 

[Laska]

Kristi I think nowadays people like email more than phone calls anyways, but your correct with having all the info on hard copies. As long as you have the documentation your good to go in my book- I know Eric so I know for a fact you have all the right info! haha

 

[Bliss]

Great thread, very interesting stuff :main_thumbsup:

I love the HM and some of the crosses that are out there especially what ive seen on these forums.

But going back to the first post can someone sum up in simple bullet points what actually makes a HM a HM? Should it have a certain pattern, amount of black pigment etc etc so its clear for everyone.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

But going back to the first post can someone sum up in simple bullet points what actually makes a HM a HM? Should it have a certain pattern, amount of black pigment etc etc so its clear for everyone.

Excellent question to get us all (me included) back on topic! Basically, I think for it to be a 'treu' Halloween Mask, it must come from Tremper - Albey - Paul Allen stock.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I think for it to be a 'treu' Halloween Mask, it must come from Tremper - Albey - Paul Allen stock.

This says it all and the offspring can only be a HM if ONLY geckos directly from these lines were used. Once you cross it, it is no longer a HM it is a cross...just like anything else.

 

[Laska]

Like said above- Genetics- and especially paperwork. Get something in writing and signed by the breeder for proof of what you have.

 

[KevinS]

This says it all and the offspring can only be a HM if ONLY geckos directly from these lines were used. Once you cross it, it is no longer a HM it is a cross...just like anything else.

So if two HMs from these lines were bred and produced offspring with relatively normal head patterns, would those offspring still be HMs? From what I'm reading, it sounds like the answer would be "yes," but if that's the case, HM isn't a morph, just a bloodline.

 

[Bliss]

So if two HMs from these lines were bred and produced offspring with relatively normal head patterns, would those offspring still be HMs? From what I'm reading, it sounds like the answer would be "yes," but if that's the case, HM isn't a morph, just a bloodline.

That's a very good point. Imo if something looks the same as something else surely they should be classed as the same thing? For example if I hatched out an albino from 2 wc geckos and it shows all the characteristics of a tremper, does that mean it can't be classed as a tremper albino because it doesn't stem back from trempers original line? The genetics are already out there it's just that RT happened to come across it first.

Same with a HM although it's line bred, if it looks like one then should it be classed as one but just not as one from the original line? So as KevinS said is it about the bloodline or the appearance because if it's about appearance and it can be recreated then surely it could be classed as one as long as it meets all the criterior?