Horrible Leo death

[Jarqu10]

Has anyone else seen this? whats wrong with this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihhJ-2NIrEA&feature=related

 

[theWERM]

Wow, thats just sick....

 

[Khrysty]

Well, food is food. Animals get eaten. If it wasn't a leo, it would have been a frog or a fish.

That being said...he probably could have found a less expensive meal for the snapper. Fish are cheap. Leos are not. Which means that this is a game to him (the owner). It wasn't about feeding the snapper, it was about seeing "how cool it is" to see another animal suffer. That's what makes it not okay.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I have used leopard geckos as feeders.

However, there were always circumstances which made it a reasonable and considered choice. Leopard geckos which were going to be culled for some reason anyway (deformities, unrelated injuries- but not illnesses), occasionally predatory species which would not respond to more readily available and cheaper food sources or predatory species which have a very narrow range of nutritional requirements that make ectothermic vertebrate prey a necessity.

I've never really understood the appeal of filming captive animals eating in most cases either. Unless there's something exceptional about it (egg eating snakes for example), presentation and consumption of a prey item doesn't really require documentation. Film of wild predation is interesting because it's a visual representation of the evolutionary adaptations of the respective species. That element is lost when the animals in question are stuck in a glass box together.

The second two reasons I have had for using leopard geckos as feeders don't apply to that video. The first one is unlikely given the "cute and cuddly" description given and the muffled chuckles as the lizard is eaten, plus the remaining videos by the user showing a number of prey items being consumed by predators that aren't cheap, efficient or nutritionally necessary.

So the most likely explanation is "Some people are just goddamn idiots."

 

[Khrysty]

So the most likely explanation is "Some people are just goddamn idiots."

Exactly.

 

[rubym]

What would make a really AWESOME video would be if someone dangled that idiot in a tank over a nice hungry gator. Heaven knows there are way too many idiots in the world anyway......whats one less!?!?

 

[Jarqu10]

Ya this guy has alot more vids of him feeding of Leos perfectly healthy leos too which is just cruel no way a leo would ever meet a snapper in the wild. They wouldnt get in water and swim either. Ya animals eat too but a feeder mouse would be better than feeding off a pet!

 

[Stl_Greaser]

Yeah, to spend that kind of money on feeders for no reason other than personal enjoyment is sick. This person needs to seek some sort of medical attention!

 

[IronGecko]

Did anyone else flag this A**h***?

 

[Duffle-Bags]

Isn't that illegal? I think you should only feed a predator something that says "TO BE USED AS A FEEDER". Thats guy has some serious issues. Either he had a bad childhood, or he's just plain messed up. Also go to his page and see how many people hate him.

 

[Rosalie Spot]

I couldn't even watch that disgusting video.

The methods I would use to kill that guy if I could get my hands on him are undescribable. :main_angry:

 

[M_surinamensis]

Isn't that illegal?

Not usually. Certainly not commonly. There might be local ordinances which would make it so in a very small number of very select locations but as a generalization, no it is not illegal.

I think you should only feed a predator something that says "TO BE USED AS A FEEDER".

What is the difference exactly?

From a practical standpoint leopard geckos are more expensive than most feeders and usually not necessary, making them a poor choice. Sometimes they are free or cheap though and sometimes the predator really needs a four inch long soft skinned lizard as a prey item in order to provoke a feed response or because they are highly specialized in their natural prey selection and leopard geckos are a much closer nutritional match than mice.

But from an ethical standpoint, what is the difference between something that says "Feeder Fish/Mouse/Anole/Quail" and a leopard gecko?

I treat all my feeders in a method that is as humane as possible, I select all my feeders based on the needs of the animal being fed and their suitability as a prey item. I am not in the habit of feeding lizards to snapping turtles just to see them get bitten in half... however when I have had reason to use a leopard gecko as a feeder, I don't think there is the slightest moral difference or intrinsic value as a living thing between that leopard gecko any other species. Certainly no difference that manifests simply because one of them was labeled with a little sign that said "Feeder ______" at the local pet store.

 

[BrilliantEraser]

While I do not have a problem with this person choosing to use whatever expensive feeder they want, I DO have a problem with the way they went about it! Giggling in the background while videotaping it is not the hallmark of a sound or sane mind.

And yes, I did flag the video.

 

[Justen23]

Thats pretty messed up i straight up flagged that bit**

 

[Dakota_Ghost]

Obviously this guy only uploads these videos to get negative responses. He seems to not only get his kicks out of using expensive and different feeder items, but he also loves the amount of hatred directed towards him. One could argue that we attach some sort of wrong doing to using a leo as a feeder item because we associate them as pets. But then again rats and mice are considered pet animals to other people. Some may argue that it’s no different to using live rats or mice. Really, there is no difference it’s still a death of a live animal. What is wrong however is his mentality and the way he finds it amusing watching other animals suffer. For that reason I think people should use frozen feeders when possible, for it is the most humane way.

 

[rubym]

once he can longer get his kicks from video taping the death of a leo...whats he going to move on to next??? I realize that all animals have to eat but as others have said this whack job isnt making these videos to demonastrate the eating habits of snapping turtles....he did it for the shock value. I didnt even watch the video...I clicked on it and saw the gecko headed into the tank and clicked it off. Theres a big difference between feeding and tourchure.

 

[Duffle-Bags]

to provoke a feed response or because they are highly specialized in their natural prey selection

??? A Natural prey selection. When has a snapping turtle ever seen a leopard gecko in the wild? Probably never. But the thing that really ticks me off is what BrillantEraser said. He's laughing while the leo dies and gets chopped in half. The guy really needs to get medical stuff or something cause he is not normal or sane in any matter. BTW look at his other videos to, An anole to a monitor??? That monitor naturaly eats insects I heard, and a baby albino corn snake to a king snake????? come on this guy has problems, and needs to go the the hosipital or something cause he is not normal.

 

[M_surinamensis]

??? A Natural prey selection. When has a snapping turtle ever seen a leopard gecko in the wild? Probably never. But the thing that really ticks me off is what BrillantEraser said. He's laughing while the leo dies and gets chopped in half. The guy really needs to get medical stuff or something cause he is not normal or sane in any matter. BTW look at his other videos to, An anole to a monitor??? That monitor naturaly eats insects I heard, and a baby albino corn snake to a king snake????? come on this guy has problems, and needs to go the the hosipital or something cause he is not normal.

You made a blanket statement that only animals in tanks that had the label "feeder" should ever be fed to something else.

I want to know what makes the life of a leopard gecko more valuable, ethically and morally, than the life of a white mouse, a feeder anole, a green tree frog, a guppy or anything else that might be called "feeder ______"

Natural prey availability is going to impact the nutritional needs of a predatory species and, sometimes, heavily influence the behavioral triggers surrounding feeding responses. It is rare for the exact prey species to be used, however in the interests of provoking a feed response from a stubborn or anorexic individual or in maintaining a healthy caloric intake in many of them, we often use a prey species that is a decently close approximation (nutritional makeup, size, shape).

There is no logical reason to feed a healthy leopard gecko to a snapping turtle, because there are alternatives which are as good or better nutritionally that are substantially cheaper to obtain.

However- as in the past and as I would continue to do in the future- when I get, for example, a gray banded kingsnake that just refuses to take mice of any kind because every instinct it has is screaming for it to go find a banded gecko to snack on, when every tease feeding, scenting and presentation trick I know has been exhausted without success- you can bet your ass I'll go find the cheapest leopard gecko possible (I do prefer to use those which would otherwise be culled, mostly because they are free) and use it as a feeder.

I have also fed plenty of leopard geckos to Candoia for similar reasons.

I have fed literally hundreds of anoles and house geckos to some of my monitors, some of my snakes and one of my frogs. All because they were an appropriate prey item. Even when the species in question would never encounter those prey species in the wild.

Many people said that the video was wrong, because there was no motivation except senseless sadism.

YOU, Duffle Bags, went a step further and said that the video was wrong because there was something special about leopard geckos that makes them sacrosanct and inviolate, that they were better than something labeled as a feeder, that they were precious and should be immune from being treated like every other animal.

You are objectively wrong in your distinction and I would like to explain it in such a way that you see this, comprehend it and alter your espoused viewpoint to encompass that epiphany.

 

[ez2animate]

You are objectively wrong in your distinction and I would like to explain it in such a way that you see this, comprehend it and alter your espoused viewpoint to encompass that epiphany.

This is an argument based on opinions. No one is right in this situation, you or Duffle_bags. It is all based on beliefs, you think it is fine, while other people think it is sick. The thing is you are on a Leopard Gecko forum, and no doubt everybody is going to say this is morally wrong. You are on a biased forum.

Now where I stand is that this shouldn't have happened because there are cheaper alternatives that are bred to be fed to other animals, such as mice and rats. Also this would have never happened in the wild because I don't think anybody has seen a snapping turtle roaming the mountains of Pakistan.



(Lulz I flagged it for animal abuse)

 

[M_surinamensis]

The thing is you are on a Leopard Gecko forum, and no doubt everybody is going to say this is morally wrong. You are on a biased forum.

I sincerely doubt that.

Large chunks of the member base might, as a result of an unfortunate ignorance or knee-jerk responses to a topic they have not thoroughly considered but I am pretty sure that the owner and moderator staff are more experienced, more educated and would tend to agree with my position.

Simply because someone happens to like one species as their favorite it doesn't automatically follow they they need to be blind to reality.