Is there still a market for "Classic" morphs?
- Thread starter Golden Gate Geckos
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peppered...leopard
leos are our thing!
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well for us, we have a classic norm and a classic Tremper!! I love them so very much.
P
pmamhayes
Guest
Hi.
I’m from the UK and only just registered here, I found this post so interesting and informative I linked to one of our UK forums were it caused quite a lot traffic.
Here are the links is case anybody’s interested in what we British herpers think.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/245597-interesting-leo-breeding-thread-us.html
and another link
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizard-pictures/245678-classic-leopard-gecko-thread.html
drop in and say Hi :main_thumbsup:
I’m from the UK and only just registered here, I found this post so interesting and informative I linked to one of our UK forums were it caused quite a lot traffic.
Here are the links is case anybody’s interested in what we British herpers think.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/245597-interesting-leo-breeding-thread-us.html
and another link
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizard-pictures/245678-classic-leopard-gecko-thread.html
drop in and say Hi :main_thumbsup:
GroovyGeckos.com
"For the Gecko Eccentric"
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Marcia,
We need people like you around. You`re awesome and don`t forget it!
I say breed the classics. Unfortunately not too many others are, and there are less and less. I would not say they are about to dissapear completely anytime soon, we are just not seeing as many, that`s all! There is certainly a possibility of that happening, if someone does not go this route soon though.
I think it does have to do with the high prices of new morphs myself. There are simply less and less people willing to work with the lower end stuff. It makes sense if you are trying to make money(even if only a little bit), to breed something more high end, and that seems to be what has happened to all of our "classic morph breeders".
There are not very many of them anymore, so maybe that can be your specialty?:main_thumbsup:
We need people like you around. You`re awesome and don`t forget it!
I say breed the classics. Unfortunately not too many others are, and there are less and less. I would not say they are about to dissapear completely anytime soon, we are just not seeing as many, that`s all! There is certainly a possibility of that happening, if someone does not go this route soon though.
I think it does have to do with the high prices of new morphs myself. There are simply less and less people willing to work with the lower end stuff. It makes sense if you are trying to make money(even if only a little bit), to breed something more high end, and that seems to be what has happened to all of our "classic morph breeders".
There are not very many of them anymore, so maybe that can be your specialty?:main_thumbsup:
Golden Gate Geckos
Mean Old Gecko Lady
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Thanks for the feeback everyone... and I enjoyed reading the UK posts a lot! I am sooooo glad that the term 'Classic' has been well-taken, and seems to be replacing the 'old school' reference. YAY!!!
When I refer to the 'classic' morphs, I not only mean the wild types or high-yellows, but include the pure genetic Murphy Patternless, Blizzards, Rainwaters, Nieves, Hines, Rainbows, Pastels, (and Giants, hehe) etc., that are not het for anything. The real deal.
It would be heartbreaking to have these classsic morphs simply disappear.
When I refer to the 'classic' morphs, I not only mean the wild types or high-yellows, but include the pure genetic Murphy Patternless, Blizzards, Rainwaters, Nieves, Hines, Rainbows, Pastels, (and Giants, hehe) etc., that are not het for anything. The real deal.
It would be heartbreaking to have these classsic morphs simply disappear.
SleepyDee
New Member
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- SouthWest England
hi Marcia ..... as I said on the UK thread I'm lucky in that most of my original leo's are all a mix of 'classic' ~ normals, W/T-W/C and others ~ and I think one of the problems that is arising now (even in the UK) is the amount of morphs which are cross bred ie: are het for this that and the other ~ it's already becoming hard (and costly) with some of the older morph strains to find any that haven't been crossed.
Keep up the work with them Marcia :main_thumbsup:
Keep up the work with them Marcia :main_thumbsup:
Alusdra
New Member
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- Washington, DC
Well this week I'm really starting to want everyone to go back to the classics. I had to go on the leopard gecko wiki at least 5 times to look up what the heck people were talking about with morphs... I thought I'd finally gotten a hold on them, too. Apparently not... though I think most of the ones I had no idea what they were talking about were combo morphs that weren't called by the combo, but by some new name. I feel like only actual independent traits should get a separate name...
And anyway- breeders like you are keeping the population from ending up with the 'popular sire syndrome' (as described for example in this article), which might be the problem with enigmas right now...
I'll be honest and say I never understood the Blizzards... when they came out I stared at them and scratched my head. I mean... why take the spots out of a leopard gecko. To me that's sort of the point... if anything there should be more. I'm loving watching the progression of the velvets for sure! All the linebred patterns like stripes and jungles and all the various crazy colors and 'albinos' in such an array of patterns... it's all fascinating, and I'm in awe of the work people do- even the SHCTB (which also, being spotless, I sort of don't get) is growing on me when I see those intense ones that are really RED. Quite cool.
Basically all this mixing is sort of like an exciting fad (one I'm rather enjoying watch unfold, to be honest, even though it's confusing!) It's pretty inevitable it will die down, though. After all, it only takes a couple years to produce the crosses, so the market should saturate pretty quickly, no? It takes real artistry to get a beautiful gecko with the more subtle multigenic traits.
And anyway- breeders like you are keeping the population from ending up with the 'popular sire syndrome' (as described for example in this article), which might be the problem with enigmas right now...
I'll be honest and say I never understood the Blizzards... when they came out I stared at them and scratched my head. I mean... why take the spots out of a leopard gecko. To me that's sort of the point... if anything there should be more. I'm loving watching the progression of the velvets for sure! All the linebred patterns like stripes and jungles and all the various crazy colors and 'albinos' in such an array of patterns... it's all fascinating, and I'm in awe of the work people do- even the SHCTB (which also, being spotless, I sort of don't get) is growing on me when I see those intense ones that are really RED. Quite cool.
Basically all this mixing is sort of like an exciting fad (one I'm rather enjoying watch unfold, to be honest, even though it's confusing!) It's pretty inevitable it will die down, though. After all, it only takes a couple years to produce the crosses, so the market should saturate pretty quickly, no? It takes real artistry to get a beautiful gecko with the more subtle multigenic traits.
cassadaga
Oregon Rainwater
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- Portland, OR
I feel it's a lost cause to try and keep up with the newest morphs. A dreamsickle is cool, but with the way leos are bred now, two or three years from now, no one will care. If you're goal is to always have the newest hottest morphs, or be the first to hatch it, I feel you'll be missing out on the main idea behind herp keeping. If you're replacing your "breeding stock" every year, to produce the more valuable offspring, you're not really a herp keeper at all. More of a herp trader. It takes all the soul out of the hobby.
I don't think it's as bad as it seems though. When I'm at the average herp expo, I'm not seeing all the hot new morphs. I still see a lot of normals, banded albinos, tangs, jungles, etc. And a lot of the people buying these geckos are kids, just coming into the hobby. That's awesome! The hobby is expanding at an incredible, and if you're in it because you love the geckos, it shouldn't matter that you're not the one with the coolest toys.
I don't think it's as bad as it seems though. When I'm at the average herp expo, I'm not seeing all the hot new morphs. I still see a lot of normals, banded albinos, tangs, jungles, etc. And a lot of the people buying these geckos are kids, just coming into the hobby. That's awesome! The hobby is expanding at an incredible, and if you're in it because you love the geckos, it shouldn't matter that you're not the one with the coolest toys.
combadao
New Member
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Perhaps it is just my perception that is different, but after living and working with Americans and Europeans, I think that there is a true, strong difference in what improvement (in living beings) means. I think Europeans are more prone to like classics and wild species ...
N
Nigel4less
Guest
Something cool for those of you who remember the "Old days"
N
Nigel4less
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Palmersheim
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Classics and the Small Breeder
Since I fall into the category of one of those guys who is relatively new to the world of leopard geckos, and now have 25 which I anxiously await for the time to have eggs... my reason for doing it matches the previous reply. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a gecko purchased from a small breeder and once purchased from a gecko farm! And... in the event it was an adult that came from "the farm", it can be quite challenging to try and get them calmed down to be handled.
Yes, I know that they don't necessarily like being handled, but when you have small children... and many children from the neighborhood... the geckos will be handled. Plus, it's a great education experience for them all, as the questions they come up with are fun to answer. And yes, they learn about the proper sanitary requirements when handling any reptile.
The economy is better suited for the small home breeder than the gecko farms as the overhead is much less to deal with thus the revenue requirements are much less. Let's face it, if we could get the revenue to pay for our hobby... most of us would be quite happy!
It is indeed quality not quantity that people want for a family gecko...
Since I fall into the category of one of those guys who is relatively new to the world of leopard geckos, and now have 25 which I anxiously await for the time to have eggs... my reason for doing it matches the previous reply. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a gecko purchased from a small breeder and once purchased from a gecko farm! And... in the event it was an adult that came from "the farm", it can be quite challenging to try and get them calmed down to be handled.
Yes, I know that they don't necessarily like being handled, but when you have small children... and many children from the neighborhood... the geckos will be handled. Plus, it's a great education experience for them all, as the questions they come up with are fun to answer. And yes, they learn about the proper sanitary requirements when handling any reptile.
The economy is better suited for the small home breeder than the gecko farms as the overhead is much less to deal with thus the revenue requirements are much less. Let's face it, if we could get the revenue to pay for our hobby... most of us would be quite happy!
It is indeed quality not quantity that people want for a family gecko...
N
Nigel4less
Guest
I`m not exactly sure what you mean by "Gecko Farm"? I mean a small breeder is a loose term. I consider myself a mid-sized breeder with about 150ish breeders, now by Gecko Farm do you mean someone that produces 500 animals or someone that produces 20000 animals? I`m just curious to here someones side of the story coming from the Newer hobbyists.
Palmersheim
New Member
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- 15
What is a farm
I would consider a "farm" a breeder who doesn't have the time to care for the sick or smaller animals and focus their attention on the number of geckos sold versus the number of healthy or lost geckos. That could range from 20 breeders to thousands. Not a quantity prerequisite rather a mindset of the breeder.
When I was looking for my first pair, I wanted a pair that had been hand raised... and was lucky enough to find a pair that had been in a family with small kids. Does it make a difference...only from the point-of-view of a parent purchasing the first reptile for their young boy.
I would consider a "farm" a breeder who doesn't have the time to care for the sick or smaller animals and focus their attention on the number of geckos sold versus the number of healthy or lost geckos. That could range from 20 breeders to thousands. Not a quantity prerequisite rather a mindset of the breeder.
When I was looking for my first pair, I wanted a pair that had been hand raised... and was lucky enough to find a pair that had been in a family with small kids. Does it make a difference...only from the point-of-view of a parent purchasing the first reptile for their young boy.
esantoso
New Member
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- Surabaya, Indonesia
I am a small breeder (from hobby) from Indonesia and quite new in this forum..
:main_thumbsup: to you Marcia ... "classic" will never die, won't allow it ... I am still keep all the old school pure morph (normal, high yellow, tremper albino, Murphy patternless, giant and blizzard) ... It is a great sense of achievement to be able to create the morph from none ..
Even though lots of people want fancy morph, but not many people as a first timer have the courage to spend the money on the price tags .. it is where the classic become very popular .. the pure classic have better genetics than the enigma that know to have behavior problem ..
:main_thumbsup: to you Marcia ... "classic" will never die, won't allow it ... I am still keep all the old school pure morph (normal, high yellow, tremper albino, Murphy patternless, giant and blizzard) ... It is a great sense of achievement to be able to create the morph from none ..
Even though lots of people want fancy morph, but not many people as a first timer have the courage to spend the money on the price tags .. it is where the classic become very popular .. the pure classic have better genetics than the enigma that know to have behavior problem ..
I see what you mean about the morphs, and I will be breeding my Leos to get some beautiful normals this year(just something about the "ragged" coloration, don't you think?), they will be het RW and B, but they'll still be Normals, and even more importantly, they'll still be geckos. I don't really care about the morph it is, as long as it's a Leo(believe it or not, even the higher end morphs are still Leos!), and the personality of the Leo seems to be what I get drawn to.
Hi Marcia.
Let me tell you a bit from the snake breeding life.
I've been working with Calkings for over 20 years. I've always kept a few that were just plain ol like you could find in the wild as well as a few of the morphs that are out there.
Nowadays it's tough to find anyone working with classics. While there are no where near the number of morphs for Calkings as there are for Leos, you will see 50 spotted or reverse stripe or aberrant for every plain ol banded or striper you come across.
There is NO money in breeding classics. However, I, personally, like them. So I breed them. Some of them do have albino genes in the mix, which I always disclose to anyone who buys, but I am at most 3 generations and likely 2, out from the original wild caught originators.
Sometimes I have them, the babies, for a lot longer than I'd like, but such is life. Eventually they go and I make more. I do it because I like it. I don't give a rat's patootie whether or not anyone else does.
I've created a small minimaret for my animals with some shops I've dealt with for years and folks that can get past my pleasant facade know they get some damn fine animals. That is enough for me. If it wasn't, I'd get rid of my Calkings.
As far as leos, I've got a 17 year old male who's mother was an import. I'm pondering breeding him to one of several girls I've got that are all at least 5 and as much as 7 years old. This places them WAY back in ancient leopard gecko genetic history.
I'll probably breed him just to see what happens BUT I've also been holding him back a loooooong time just in case something like this happened.
Do what makes you happy. We only truly compete with ourselves. If you MUST bury your husband in the yard, be sure to dig the hole deep enough.
Be Happy or at least not miserable. You never know what tomorrow will bring or even if it will arrive at all.
Let me tell you a bit from the snake breeding life.
I've been working with Calkings for over 20 years. I've always kept a few that were just plain ol like you could find in the wild as well as a few of the morphs that are out there.
Nowadays it's tough to find anyone working with classics. While there are no where near the number of morphs for Calkings as there are for Leos, you will see 50 spotted or reverse stripe or aberrant for every plain ol banded or striper you come across.
There is NO money in breeding classics. However, I, personally, like them. So I breed them. Some of them do have albino genes in the mix, which I always disclose to anyone who buys, but I am at most 3 generations and likely 2, out from the original wild caught originators.
Sometimes I have them, the babies, for a lot longer than I'd like, but such is life. Eventually they go and I make more. I do it because I like it. I don't give a rat's patootie whether or not anyone else does.
I've created a small minimaret for my animals with some shops I've dealt with for years and folks that can get past my pleasant facade know they get some damn fine animals. That is enough for me. If it wasn't, I'd get rid of my Calkings.
As far as leos, I've got a 17 year old male who's mother was an import. I'm pondering breeding him to one of several girls I've got that are all at least 5 and as much as 7 years old. This places them WAY back in ancient leopard gecko genetic history.
I'll probably breed him just to see what happens BUT I've also been holding him back a loooooong time just in case something like this happened.
Do what makes you happy. We only truly compete with ourselves. If you MUST bury your husband in the yard, be sure to dig the hole deep enough.
Be Happy or at least not miserable. You never know what tomorrow will bring or even if it will arrive at all.
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