Is there still a market for "Classic" morphs?

[animalhouse27]

Wow, what a interesting Post! I have been reading as much as I Can to learn about Geckos.. and I Was just telling my Husband and Roomate how hard it is to figure out about all the morphs.. there is just sooo Many. And people have asked me if I Would breed.. And the answer right now is NO. LOL There is WAY to many types out there. I Would totally get confused. I Like the Classics just fine.. It keeps the breed.. Simple.. And not Complicated as it is now LOL!

I Would totally Buy a "Classic" if I saw one I Was attracted to. I am not picky by any means

I Hope you don't stop breeding, as I looked at you website, and I Love the geckos you have.

 

[Halley]

maybe this will spawn people out there to maybe take a year or two to outcross their morphs and get back to the genetic basics. I’m no professional but I’m sure there has to be a way from breeding out different traits just like there is a way to breed in traits. Maybe that could be a niche for someone. To provide strong blood lines that aren't "tainted" with other genetic traits.

Am I wrong in my thinking if you can put in you can take out?

Nope, you’re correct! This is my thinking as well. If you want pure Rainwaters or another morph, breed a Rainwater Patty, to a gecko from WC bloodlines, and breed the double hets back together. 18.75% will be Rainwaters from this pairing, 66% of them will be het Patty, but the other 44% will not be. Test breed, and segregate the 44%, and wala you have your Pure Rainwaters!

 

[nevinm]

i didnt read much of the posts because im sure everyone that posted has the same thought. i personally am in the middle. compairing leos to cars... and this is just my thought.... those classic morphs... my most favorite car i ever owned was a 95 eagle summit, 4dr, 4 cy, manual. on the other hand my favorite car is a toss up between a miclaren F1 and a 69' SS camaro. if i ever have a chance to get one, you can bet your sweet MOGL butt, i will. some ppl are happy with plain old cars, some ppl need the fastest most expensive cars, and some ppl are happy, but will get anything they can when they get a chance.....

while i dont or ever will look at any of my animals as product, they do fall into a market, and this is how EVERY market on earth is.

just my thought...
nev

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Nick that's exactly what i was thinking. so i'm not crazy. well any more then i was before i posted that.

 

[eyelids]

Marcia, your consideration of classic morphs really touches my heart! It's too bad that we probably will see some of them go the way of the "Golden"...

I think I need to get a pair of LBS...

 

[Zynx_Keekeio]

In no way do I call myself a breeder, but I am breeding them because I enjoy leopard geckos so mucH!! I love everything about them, there behavior their faces, the way they eat. I want to learn more about them and breeding is one aspect I'd love to see!

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

Marcia,

I feel your pain!!!! I to have limitations as I have 3 herniated disks and it really holds me back. But you have been around a long while and I know no matter what you put on your sight it would sell so if you have this dream of doing the classic morphs do it. I have felt that way before and always when I breed my non het patties or my blizzards that too are non het just plain old school and The trempers I have which have never been any where near the Raptor gene, That sometimes I cant give them away.
But though its discourageing, it always makes me feel great to know that by keeping these originals all original not adding different genes to them, that when I breed them I am and breeding there offspring I am keepinig there original strains alive, and I got past the money part of these guys a while ago, knowing that when people have bred all these different genes into them I will still have lines of originals , and thats how you should feel.
Though there is many new exciting things comeing about there is still going to be a place in peoples heart for these original classics, so hold on to a line of originals cause someday you may be the only one with a non tainted original morph and they may sell for alot because people will want to get an original. as with any antique, who wants a replica when you can get the original, which might I add an original is worth alot more to so. You know they can find there way back to the top. Keep your head up, and go with what you feel cause in the end its you and only you that you need to please. Thanks again for this post Its helped me realize I'm not the only one who loves all not just the hear and now.

Adam

WOW. This thread is really getting interesting! Thank you all soooo much for your posts, emails, and PM's... this is a good, thought-provoking subject.

I would like to elaborate somewhat on my original post. I am utterly fascinated with all the 'new' combination morphs that are being created today. I never in my wildest dreams 10 years ago imagined that we would have so many fascincating and interesting morph combinations today. When someone comes up with the 'first' of something, I am amazed. I am also truly excited and happy for for them! But, in all honesty, I am a little envious, too. Sometimes I wish I wasn't physically limited and had the resources to be able to 'create' something unique and new. But I can't, and never will. I must say, that after a very heartbreaking season, I am truly OK with the gecko morphs I love and work with.

What spawned this thread was... I have been thinking a lot about my place here in the leopard gecko community. I have done a lot of soul-searching, and have seriously considered simply fazing out into oblivion, and giving up Golden Gate Geckos. Kind of like 'getting out while you're ahead'. There is no way I can compete with the 'morph-makers' in this business! But then, I started soul-searching and asked myself if that was really what I wanted to do, and it has been truly a struggle for me to come up with an answer... except "Why do I feel like I NEED to compete?"

One of the most exciting parts of being a Leopard Gecko breeder is the thrill of every egg that hatches... to see what the season's pairings have produced! I can honestly say, that if I weren't physically challenged, and had more time and space, I would be a mad scientist too! I am in utter awe of the creations that we see now with these beautiful, gentle creatures we ALL love so much.

But it was when I was cleaning and feeding the other night when I took out 'POPS'... the original R2 Bold Stripe male that is well over 10 years old now, and held him against my chest when I began to cry. I was talking to him saying, "Oh, buddy! You are the first AND the last one!" Then I took out Louie, another old guy... an original Blizzard Lizard, and began to sob like a baby. All I could think of is, 'you are the LAST ones! When you are gone, there will be no more'. Then I took out my Pattys, and then my Tremper albinos (that aren't het for RAPTOR!) and felt this overwhelming sense of fear.

There aren't many Trempers out there anymore that aren't het for RAPTOR. There aren't any (white) Blizzards left that are not tainted with albino genes. There are very few Murphy patternless anymore that are not het for albino. There are no more Rainwater albinos that are not het for patternless or crossed with redstripes. I feel an overwhelming sense of grief... a sense of total loss for these 'old school' morphs. Do they have any "value" anymore?

What IS value? Is it how much a gecko costs? Is it how rare it is that makes it have value? Is it the value we have in our hearts for these 'old-school' morphs that pioneered the gecko industry as we see it today? Perhaps is it all of the above.

I am at a crossroad here. I know these geckos are of value to me. Sure, I want to make money breeding, raising, and selling geckos! There is no crime in getting paid for what you work hard for. But what is the REAL cost when these pure, genetic, 'Classics' are no more? What is the cost when we no longer have any pure Rainwaters, Patternless, and Blizzards?

I would like to see a balance. There is room for all of us. I love to see all of these "pink morphs with unusual eyes" that even their breeders aren't sure what they are! But, when I take out my "old school", pure genetic Classics... it brings tears to my eyes. I would hate to see them be only of enough 'value' to live out their days here with the Mean Old Gecko Lady until they are no more.

 

[Franks_Geckos]

All of this talk about classics and “morph-breeding” is very intriguing and definitely warrants some consideration by anyone in the community with a conscience, that’s for sure. As someone who dabbles lightly in “morph-breeding”, I also still see the significance of maintaining pure and clean lines. I have and will always try to keep some older breeders around that are in some way “pure” or Non-Het and over time outcross these (certainly before the females are too old to breed) to pure or clean subspecies or at least a simple High Yellow line. I feel that by keeping my old breeders (although in retrospect I should have kept more over the years) that I acquired before any Raptors, Mack Snows, and Enigmas (or by-products of these) hit the market, I have a chance to do a little of both. I can experiment (obviously I am not going to produce anything no one has ever seen before) and try to keep a healthy clean line of geckos that fall into the “classic” category.

I do not produce any morph in large enough numbers to consider my breeding hobby large. I have never produced more than 120 Leopard Geckos in any year and I have been actively breeding for over 6 full seasons. I keep it small and I like it that way. I can’t handle more than that, especially since I have been working with Cresteds as well for over a year now. I have seen the difference in the market over the last two years and while I do own a few Enigmas, I couldn’t afford them when they first came out as I only allow myself to spend money on new projects after I have made and saved money from existing projects. That mindset and way of doing what I do results in the fact that I will never be on the cutting edge of any new morph, always a year behind (sometimes more) the initial market surge or draw to a particular morph. I am OK with that. I had to wait to get Enigmas, Mack Snows, and Raptors for that matter until either the price was right, or someone was willing to trade with me for some cool stuff I had. I never had illusions of grandeur or thought I was going to make a ton of money on geckos in the first place. As long as my little hobby sustains itself and gives a little back for the effort, I am happy.

The idea of getting out of the hobby has crossed my mind in the last few months (as I regret to see it has for some others as well). The big reason for that thought crossing my mind had more to do with the fact that I would be paying to construct a new room in my house to accommodate the growing space required for my breeders and their hatchlings than it did a loss of interest in the hobby. With a poor economy, I can’t see things getting better for the community within the next year or so, and as anyone who has been in the hobby for a few years or more knows, electricity and feeders aren’t cheap, and if you are not selling out the geckos you intended to sell in the first place, you can get in a rut in a hurry. I haven’t even paired up geckos yet for the 2009 season because I am out of rack space as it is. This time last year I was getting my first eggs from 3 or more females. That means I am already at least a month behind where I wanted to be going into the year. But, I am OK with that, too, because I am not stressing about pairings and the adults are all plump and ready to go when they are called upon. It is encouraging to know that others are concerned about the state of the hobby and the market and what we can all do to keep it alive and well. I think there have been some really great posts in this thread and it is important that we all keep our heads in what we are doing and be responsible gecko “caretakers” as well. After all, do you really believe in a healthy future for the Leopard Gecko as a species if the only people left breeding them are only mass producing them for the money? There should be room for all of us and everyone eventually should develop a line that they specialize in or carve out a niche, otherwise, the glut will continue and we may be forced to reduce our collections or be into forced into oblivion by the next wave of “breeders” with $$ in their eyes and money to burn in their pockets the next time a new gene or trait appears and they feel the need to have one and breed it into everything.

 

[MeiK]

I'm not making any sort of money breeding... Let me say that first.

However - 90% of the forum is in the USA... In a capitalistic society - Making a profit and building a business when you can is pretty much the goal for most entrepreneurs out there.

We've got to look @ the big picture here. Business shouldn't be taken personally. If someone is out to make money - good for them. Nobody should be upset about it. It's not up to ANYONE to tell someone else how a business should be run - what they should be breeding etc...

 

[rubym]

I have a pair of high yellows and I love my babies. Last year my girl only laid 2 fertile eggs and I kept both of my babies. I breed on a SMALL scale and I breed what I really love. No my geckos will never make me rich but when I get a text from one of the teens that bought one of my babies telling me how big she is and how happy she is with her then you know I don't care. I like to read the genetics and morph section but to be honest sometimes it makes my head hurt trying to figure out what is what and what the difference between morph a and morph b really is. I think that there will always be some of us around that enjoy simple. I have a little daughter of a wild caught pair and Ive been told that she is rather homely but to me she is beautiful. She is natural looking and she represents this hobby in its purist form. Keep doing what you are doing Marcia. All of us classics will eventually come back in style if we hang around long enough!!!!!

 

[snakesngex]

Funny you should bring this up Marcia

I was just talking with another leo breeder the other day and we were both saying how you can't find some of the "classic" stuff anymore.

The bad part is....those are some of my favorite animals so I decided to start hunting them down so that I can have some to play with.

As far as giving up because you don't make 20,000 leos a year.....don't do it!! You mentioned physical limitations, I don't know what kind, but assuming you can go do shows....I would buy from "little guys" like you all day long before I would buy from the "big guys". I think lots of folks are starting to get into the same mindset.

So keep up the good work and don't give up!!

Stu

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Thanks, all! I still have 'pure' blizzards, 'pure' patternless, and 'pure' Trempers that are not het for ANYTHING. I'd like to keep them that way.

 

[herpencounter]

MOGL do you still breed pure blizzards?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Yes!

 

[herpencounter]

I might have to take one from you some time.

 

[boutiquegecko]

Marcia-you keep right on with your collection. I think many of us have thought of leaving the hobby after this past year. The economy is just bad, and the market is so super flooded it's almost crazy. I'm almost happy we had a bad year, because I don't know if I could have placed all that I needed to place in homes. As it goes, with everything going on, we prob will hold off this year.
Anyhow, I'm not as well known as some here at all. But Marcia, the oldies aren't gone. My Moose is 12 yrs old now, and just the other day I was looking at him and was sad. He's just not eating as much as he used to and is not as young looking any longer. Every day now I dread checking his tank in that he might be gone I had planned on using him as "new" blood because he's a normal from so long ago. He's quite stocky looking too compared to some of the non stocky looking leos of today. Over this past year we invested in Nieves, which I'm super happy to work with. I love them and never thought I'd have one. I need a few females now I'd love to add a few more pure lines if I could.
So I think the pure lines will always be valued. There's no way in the world I can keep up with all the new morphs, nor do I want to. I'm happy working with refining what we have and if we pop out something new-cool. If not, oh well. I don't have the $, space, time etc for all that.
Your bolds and pattys are Top of The Line imo. And I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. You should be very proud of them and what you have accomplished.

 

[paintedlizards]

I personally like the classics. we have 20 or so geckos and we do breed, but small scale- three of our geckos are laying this season and we'll keep a couple and sell the rest at SMALL local shows. Right now we're breeding our tangs and our patty's .... nothing
'special'

 

[lizardlove]

Marcia, I don't know much about leopard geckos other than how to make them happy and keep them healthy. As a noob, the fact is all the long acronyms and new morphs confuse me, but I understand normal, snow, tangerine, blizzard. I can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on a special morph and I think the classics are prettier anyway. Like I said, I'm a gecko noob, so if it means anything at all to you I want you to know that I hope you don't give up, because your passion for these animals is inspiring and of all the breeders' sites I've looked at I keep coming back to yours, they're so beautiful, and I think that my next leo will be one of yours. If a newbie like me loves your leos, you can bet that hundreds of others will, too.

 

[Ehatcher]

a nice healthy looking Normal with a FAT tail is the best looking Leo available!

 

[LZRDGRL]

The Normals are the only ones that deserve the name "leopard" gecko. Or does a Red Stripe or a Patternless remind you of a leopard?

Chrissy