Losing geckos left and right...

[astronut1885]

I'm not sure how it happened, but I think I am in the midst of a crypto outbreak. My giant T-albino already waned away and died, my bell hybino that I got as a SS gift this spring just died now, my MSB is dropping weight and has no interest in food, my blizzard looks like crap and is struggling along on slurry, and my little super snow isn't eating on her own, needs to be assisted, and is dropping weight. This is freaking terrible. My local vet has no clue what's going on, says the stools were negative for everything (crypto, coccidia), but something is wrong. My other geckos are doing fine, and everyone is isolated in individual racks at this point with food/water/90* hot spot. I just don't know how this happened, I followed all the quarantine rules, and I'm losing alot of animals.

 

[malt_geckos]

I'm sorry about that. Try turning up the heat to about 97 to see if that helps with appetite. Good Luck.

 

[astronut1885]

97? Not to second guess you, but all the books I have say that anything above 93 isn't good...

Edit- just turned it up, I'm not even gonna second guess you... you guys know a lot more about keeping these guys than I do. I was set to 92*

 

[astronut1885]

I really don't think I can take losing any more, I care a lot about my geckos. The giant tremper that died was actually the first gecko I bought for my fiance when I took her to an expo. She saw it and fell in love, she's still upset about her being gone.

 

[ang3l3s]

sorry for your loss, i would agree with the heat thing though, mine are on 95-97, sometimes they just pass from what i have read from other threads not that will make things better. Good luck with the rest!!!

 

[lisa s]

I'm so sorry to hear you are loosing your gecko's... keep on feeding slurry ... keep everything very clean .. clean everyday and keep on papertowel.
I hope they will survive .. maybe try another wet ?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Oh my... I am so sorry to hear that your geckos are dying! I can imagine how devastated you must feel. I lost 17 out of 24 sick geckos many years ago to mycotoxic poisoning, and I actually had to be put on antidepressants over it! It turned out that the geckos were dying from the crickets which were fed moldy corn-based feed by the supplier. It took me nearly 9 months to get to the bottom of it.

First of all, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose crypto without having a stool sample sent out to a lab for a special test... and even then, it may not show up unless the parasite is in it's reproductive stage. If you want an accurate diagnosis, I recommend you have one of the deceased geckos sent out for a full necropsy. DO NOT freeze the body as that will destroy the tissues.

Another thing to consider is that bacterial infections do not show up on routine fecal tests either. A stool sample needs to be grown and cultured in a lab to determine what antibiotic it is sensitive to. Most bacterial infections respond well too Baytril, with is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic similar to the human form of Cipro.

I would recommend having a collective stool examination. What I mean by this is to combine ALL of the stools from your geckos and have a fecal test performed. If it's runny, then tear off the soiled piece of paper towel and put it in a zip-lock bag. Many parasitic infections only test positive if their eggs can be observed. If one gecko is infected, then treat them all... even if they have no symptoms.

In the meantime, keep all of your geckos housed individually on paper towel, and practice fastidious cleanliness. Change the paper towel as soon as it becomes soiled, and disinfect all enclosures, hides, and bowls every 24 hours in straight household ammonia (use good ventilation) or 10% bleach solution. Rinse VER well and allow these items to air-dry. Use disposable vinyl gloves after handling each gecko.

My heart goes out to you!

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

And, if you have any geckos that appear normal and healthy, get them away from the ones you think are sick. You certainly don't want the virus, if that's what it is, to spread any more than it already has. Best of Luck! I hope things turn around for you. :main_yes:

 

[OhioGecko]

To go along with Marcia's post and the problems she had with the vendors feeding moldy corn to the circkets, I have a couple of questions for you.

What feeders are you using?
What are you gutloading with?
How long after you receive the feeders from the vendor do you feed them to the reptiles?

 

[astronut1885]

I was using store bought crickets for a long time, and they kept old potatoes in the bins with them (bangs head off wall).... I'm starting to wonder if this is what is going on... Now I am using mail order mealworms that I am gutloading for several days with carrot, apple, dry dog food, and other random veggies that I loot from the fridge. All of my geckos are in a RhinoRaxx sweater box rack system, individually, with paper towel substrate. H20 is changed daily, paper towels are changed as soon as they get pooped on (I check 3x per day at least), and I use throw away hides (dunkin donuts styro cups cut in half), and heat was set to 91* constant but at the instruction of MALT I've bumped it to 97* constant (my room is about 70* ambient, so the cool side of each bin is about that). Each bin is cleaned with bleach bi-weekly or if it gets soiled through the paper towel. Some of my geckos are showing no signs or symptoms of illness, and have actually been gaining weight at an amazing rate since hitting the rack. My super snow has always been very small, and she's rather thin and always walks around with her eyes closed, but she'll take worms from tongs eagerly and poops regularly. My blizzard used to be a fatty and an aggressive eater, now she spends all her time very lethargic in her humid hide and I have to put mealworms in the back of her throat with tongs to get her to swallow them, and she's down to nearly skin and bones. She sometimes regurgitates the mealworms and has runny stool, but the last two days she's kept them down. My Snow Bell was the fattest gecko I ever saw when I got her, but she went off food as soon as she arrived, and shows little interest in worms, so she also gets assist-fed with tongs. My Aptor had lost almost all of her weight, but since hitting the rack and worms, has been eating like a pig, finally shed the other day for the first time I can remember, and is starting to plump up in her body (tail is still skinny). My 2 normals, my SHCT, and my SHTCTB are as fat as can be, eat like pigs, poop to match, and have done nothing but grow those nice fat pockets behind their legs since I got the rack. The two hatchlings I kept are also growing at an insane rate in the rack, I've never seen anything like it. Honestly, the only thing that keeps my spirits up about this is watching Venus turning into a real stunner with insane amounts of CT starting to show through. And if I weren't already on anti-depressants thanks to work, this would probably put me there. I take my geckos VERY seriously.

 

[astronut1885]

Marcia- no can do on the necropsy at this point, the geckos were buried after death.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Rob, dry dog food is not a good gutload. It is made from sub-human grade corn products and meat by-products that are not pasteurized. Not only could it harbor mycotoxins from the corn, but bacteria from potentially rancid meat products. Dogs are pretty much immune to these microbes, but reptiles are not. Crickets can build up enormous loads of this type of mold, and they are bacteria-laden to begin with.

If your geckos are poisoned from aflatoxins, there is not much you can do about it except change their diet immediately and see if their liver will start functioning again normally. If it is bacterial, I suggest you get your vet to prescribe Baytril ASAP. Keep in mind that the Baytril will give them a tummy-ache at first from killing the gram positive bacteria in their intestines.

This is an excellent case for using the GGG slurry while your geckos are convalescing.

 

[astronut1885]

Wow, I didn't know that about the dog food, I had read it was a good component of a gutload. I will take it out ASAP. I'll have to talk to my vet, but it's clear to me he's not a reptile guy. I totally understand what you're saying though about the med side effects, I'm an RN and I've seen that stuff happen to people.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Rob, I hope you know that I am not trying to lecture you... I also love my geckos and am heartbroken for you with all the losses you have suffered. I am only trying to use the 14+ years experience with these beautiful gentle creatures and share as much information as possible in this 55 year old memory of mine.

I have a VERY strong hunch that your geckos are either being poisoned by Aflatoxins, or they have a devastating bacterial infection. Either way, I would almost guarantee that they are suffering from hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver), and this is the likely cause of death in your geckos. This condition CAN be reversed! I saved 7 of my afflicted geckos by discontinuing the crickets I was getting. My tragedy with mycotoxic poisoning was how I came up with the GGG slurry! Once I knew what the problem was (l-o-n-g story), I was able to completely rehabilitate the 7 out of 24 sick/dead geckos.

I want to make sure that everyone knows I am NOT a vet, but I am priveleged to have one of the BEST reptile vets in the country taking care of the GGG geckos. I have learned a lot over the years, and have a very intuative nature when it comes to problems with our geckos... based on that experience. It may be possible that you DO have crypto, but if you have practiced quarantine and good husbandry like you say, I doubt it.

Get rid of your crickets. Get rid of your gutload containing dry dog food. Make a batch of my slurry (exactly like I specify without substitutes), and convince your vet to prescribe Baytril. The dose is 25mg per kg of body weight, per Dr. Roger Klingenberg's book "Understanding Reptile Parasites", and my own vet's prescriptions.

It's time to be 'pro' active and not 're' active. Let's do whatever we can collectively to save the rest of your gecko colony!

 

[astronut1885]

Crickets have been gone for about a month, and trust me when I say all of your advise is both welcome and greatly appreciated. I wasn't trying to be smart in my previous answer. I'll see what I can do with the vet, I think you may be right on with what's going on here. And yes, all of the sick geckos have shown the typical black belly seen with hepatic lipidosis.

 

[CritterCrue]

First off, I am VERY VERY sorry for your sudden loss. I know how you feel as I have dealt with some similiar issues myself with my first gecko. At the time, I only had the one gecko, so it was a toss up as to what was wrong. I think you are doing a great job in keeping everything clean, temps regulated etc. I hope that you have success with the rest of the geckos. Are you using the special terrium cleaners and hide cleaners? Or are you using the bleach solution? As was already mentioned before, if you use the bleach solution be sure to let it air dry in the sun and rinse it VERY well, if there is any left over residue, it might create fumes activated by the heat of the lamps or UTH, that could be a killer as well. Some stuff that you wouldn't think could effect them, does. Just trying to offer suggestions...

I have to say that I have used the slurry recipe to help save my precious blizzard Opal. It sounded silly to me at first, and the ingredients can be expensive, but man did it help extend Opals life. She never lost her personality while on the slurry recipe. We also used acidipolis (forgot how to spell it) and that helped, I also gave her solar drops too. We had several bouts with the vets, first time treated for parasites and the rest of the visits they couldn't figure out what was wrong.

She never regained her appetite for "meat" but did eat Marcia's slurry recipe. I was amazed that she would eat it, lap it up like a dog laps water. I made the batch in these ice cube trays and then froze them and put them in a freezer bag. I still have some frozen slurry on hand just in case! you never know when you might need it.

However, we lost my precious Opal in November. I used to say that she was aneroxic and couldn't stand to be even 1 gram over 17 grams, but eventually she started to waste away to nothing. She died in my hands and I buried her and put her hide over her "grave". I also planted a flower in honor of her. I cried for days and swore I would never get another gecko (apparent lie cuz I love the boogers).

I feel your loss and your pain. We never found out what was wrong, and I will always be curious. Thank goodness that my other lizard children eat very well and are all healthy.

We are very VERY meticilious about using sanitizer before AND after handling anything that belongs to them that way there is no second guessing cross contanimation. We sanitize the tanks, hides, change the substrate as often as possible, I think that the paper towels companies are thanking us lol.

I wish you luck and prayers in dealing with the crazy illnesses that can strike anyone and any living thing and hope that you will be spared any more losses.

-leslie

 

[astronut1885]

I lost my little super snow tonight. I'm glad there aren't any tall buildings around. She was my favorite, I had always adored the SS morph and she was my only one that I got from ACPart last summer. Everyone else seems to be gaining weight, and the stools are looking more and more regular. I honestly think alot of this has to do with the anorexia the less aggressive geckos went through in my attempted colony enclosure. All the ones who kept on eating straight through aren't showing any signs of these problems, those that were bullied and went off food all have the typical hepatic lipidosis, and it's making me think that I put all these geckos into liver failure...

 

[Adinar]

I lost my little super snow tonight. I'm glad there aren't any tall buildings around. She was my favorite, I had always adored the SS morph and she was my only one that I got from ACPart last summer. Everyone else seems to be gaining weight, and the stools are looking more and more regular. I honestly think alot of this has to do with the anorexia the less aggressive geckos went through in my attempted colony enclosure. All the ones who kept on eating straight through aren't showing any signs of these problems, those that were bullied and went off food all have the typical hepatic lipidosis, and it's making me think that I put all these geckos into liver failure...

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. I know exactally how you feel. We've lost 3 since May due to an unknown illness. It's so incredably frustrating. You do everything you can, and still feel like it's not enough. God knows how many times I've been sitting here hand feeding the sickies and just start crying over the stress of not knowing what is going on or how to help them. I also lost my favorite back in July and it still upsets the crap out of me, this time with Odin wasn't as bad... but I still feel horrible about it.

Hope your others make some good progress. All's you can do is keep up what you're doing. Good luck.

 

[astronut1885]

I don't think my blizzard is going to make it at this point. She's stooling out undigested worms, and has become extremely lethargic. My MSB is on the fence, as she still has energy but doesn't seem to want to eat, is still having loose stools, but keeps down the mealies that I assist feed her. My APTOR is gaining body weight, shedding again, and looking better and better every day, but her stools are still only half formed and look kinda gritty. I think my post last night was in denial, because obviously not everyone who has been ill is recovering at this point... It's just making me sick that I've lost 3 of my geckos in the last week...

 

[JordanAng420]

Rob sweetheart,
I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time right now. It might be a good idea to call your vet & let him/her know you'd like to bring in one or a few of these animals for necropsy. Have the gecko's body sent out to a lab if the vet doesn't want to do it in-house. If you lose anyone else, keep them in the fridge not the freezer, and have them sent out for further testing. You really NEED to get to the bottom of this. Good luck, and I hope things turn around!