Mack snow Patty?

[David Loftin]

Yeah.. I guess its possible esp. with Alex Hue's stuff since he has been working the Ghost [Dominant] into the Macks from almost the get go. But.. I just don't see how it would affect the geckos overall adult coloration.

It would make the dots.. on the majority of its body disappear? But its already patternless.. Haha. It may make it a little lighter? Time will tell.

No problem with helping you out. You are helping me out as well. I will be in the same situation in a couple of months. Very confused with Mack Combos.. haha

Edit: Did you get the Patternless Snows from Alex?

 

[Gazz]

Got answer from Alex:

Hey Lotta,
Pretty geckos...but they are not MSP...they look kinda like patternless ghosts to me

Yes...he can be right??

What price are patterless ghost in?

Is't alex's mack ghosted result of mack snow X hypo ?.

 

[David Loftin]

The "GHOST" that Alex Hue came across is a Dominant Hypo. If you check out his Available Section Here.. You can see that it is quite variable. But basically when breeding a Ghost to a Normal. You get an animal that looks like a like a either faintly patterned Hypo or a no back marked Hypo. They always seems to have marks on their heads though. Thats at least what I have seen and understand about it. :main_thumbsup:


Edit: Definition of Ghost from Alex Hue "Ghost is a genetic co-dominant/dominant, "hypo"/"super hypo" were the result of linebreeding for many generations in order to produce results that a ghost would within first breedings"

here is a link to a post he made about the Mack Snow Ghost's

 

[Lottiz]

yea, they are from Alex all right, and he told me once he want ghost in every line to get whiter macks and super snows. He want to become a mack snow patternless blazing blizzard ghost (!!!!!) but maybe that was just a dream :main_rolleyes:

I've ask him for pics of adult patternless ghost...but i can't understand how to see the different... :main_huh:

 

[David Loftin]

That does make a lot of sense to make whiter Macks. Mack Patternless Blazing Blizard Ghost.. Sounds like fun.. Blazing Ghost Banana Blizard Snow? haha Would be interesting.. But how would you be able to tell?

:main_huh:

 

[Lottiz]

:main_laugh: no idea....:main_cool3:

 

[Lottiz]

I just got this answer from Alex:

most if not all of the mack snows and mack snow combos I had in the beginning were crossed with the ghost line, I was trying to make really white "hypoish" mack snows and super snows. I knew in the beginning that the ghost gene would reduce/eliminate most of the spotting of leopard geckos...what I didnt know for sure ( I do now ) is that the ghost gene also passes on the muted yellow color. Even though a mack snow ghost has very reduced patterning/spotting...the majority of them were "ghostly yellow". We've hatched out a number of patternless that also look like the ones you hatched out...instead of a uniform color like most patternless, they had more of a "ghostly yellow" color with white/whitish borders. If you look at a regular ghost http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/Geckos/geckos/hatchlingleoos3112007/hghost.JPG and imagine those colors on the patternless....then it would make sense, when you look at the baby ghost in that link...you'll see that there is a white/whitish outline around the outside of the dark/yellow areas and the patches of spotting are muted and soft....very similar to the patternless babies you hatched out. The patternless already eliminates any spotting so the ghost influence wouldnt show up in that aspect, but the coloration of the ghost does show up. Hope that made sense. Anyways.....at this point in time, that would be my best guesstimate...I'm holding back a bunch of what I believe to be patternless ghosts, I'm going to be breeding them to normals and see if any of the future hatchlings look like ghosts.


well...sounds like it's patternless ghost!


/Lottiz

 

[David Loftin]

I just heard back from Shelly from Lizard Lair.

Here is what she said "I can only say from my own experience, I haven't hatched any of the pastels. My Mack patties all hatched white and lavender, and they stayed that way for quite awhile. Absolutely no tint on them whatsoever. But then they eventually go quite dark, especially during the day. As adults, my mack patties developed a yellowish body with a dusty lavender head & tail. Their color seems to be more stable as adults, but as hatchlings the babies change a lot between day and night. Last year was my first year working with patternless, and I only did it in the Macks. But I've seen pictures of a normal hatchling patti, and they are yellowish."

...

"On the second page, her 2nd picture that shows the two of them together, while they are very different from each, neither one look like anything I've hatched. Truly the mack patti babies are very, very white and pink/lavender. Not greyish or dusty looking....I wish I'd saved some pictures of the hatchlings. "

 

[David Loftin]

well...sounds like it's patternless ghost!

I agree. Crazy.. But good to know. Please do keep us updated on how they turn out and other hatchlings from this pairing. Thanks Lottiz.

 

[robin]

weird thing is those babies seem to have some dark coloring/pigmentation around the "patternless" spots. thats rather strange for a patty. also look at the genetics. if mom and dad were mack patternless. well then they are for sure patternless and wont they be for sure macks? thus having patty macks even if not in the super form. arent the mack co-dominant. if they were "pastel" or "ghost" because of the hypo influence it would result in less melanin, which these babies do not seem to be lacking in. regardless i would hang on to those hatchling and try to prove them out.

 

[David Loftin]

also look at the genetics. if mom and dad were mack patternless. well then they are for sure patternless and wont they be for sure macks? thus having patty macks even if not in the super form. arent the mack co-dominant. if they were "pastel" or "ghost" because of the hypo influence it would result in less melanin, which these babies do not seem to be lacking in. regardless i would hang on to those hatchling and try to prove them out.

In this situation if the geckos were just Patternless Mack Snows.. you would technically get
50% Patternless Mack Snow
25% Patternless Mack Super Snow
25% Patternless

I believe that's how it would break down.

I do agree with hanging onto them. I would like to see how they turn out.

 

[Lottiz]

About Shellys answer;
-Interesting reading, thanks David!

I will up date them, and as they aren't MS patty, i will get some soon from this couple, maybe mack snow patternless ghost ! Or some MSS patty Ghost!!!!

My good...:main_rolleyes:

/Lottiz

 

[Lottiz]

weird thing is those babies seem to have some dark coloring/pigmentation around the "patternless" spots. thats rather strange for a patty.

But it's usual for dom. hypo

 

[Kotsay1414]

I can't wait to see what they look like when they are older. Too bad they were both incubated for female

 

[Kotsay1414]

Just throwing this out there... does anyone have any pictures of a Mack Super Snow Patternless?

 

[Gazz]

Just throwing this out there... does anyone have any pictures of a Mack Super Snow Patternless?

Yep this is owned by a UK rep'shop owner/breeder not sure if he bred it him self though also not for sale.

 

[Kotsay1414]

Yep this is owned by a UK rep'shop owner/breeder not sure if he bred it him self though also not for sale.

What about hatchling pictures?

 

[David Loftin]

I seem to remember them hatching with red eyes.. I can't find the picture on Gecksoetc.com .. That is a very cute gecko. Would be nice if I ended up with a few of those later this year.

 

[Lottiz]

-Aren't they gorgeous!!! I love white leos with black eyes...it's them same with black eyed blizards. Lovely!

David; I think it's MS albino patternless you have seen as red eyed hatchlings

/Lottiz

 

[David Loftin]

David; I think it's MS albino patternless you have seen as red eyed hatchlings

You are probably right Lottiz. They Super Snow Patternless is very cute. I wish someone would post pictures of every type of Mack Snow Combo that has been produced. Both as hatchlings and Adults.

Hint Hint.. to Someone out there..