Mack Snow x Line Bred Snow

[fallen_angel]

I was telling this stuff to Robin in PM the other day and realized maybe I should just make a thread about it for everyone to see.

Many people ask us, "How do you know if you hatch a Line Bred Snow or a Mack Snow?"

I believe that you do not hatch either one or the other, but a mixture of the two. This is why we call them "Snows" or "Mack/Line Bred Snows." These Snows are technically one generation outcross from Albey's Line Bred Snow; and because of the Mack line being introduced, the offspring are believed to be able to produce Super Snows when bred back to each other.


With our LBS x Mack Snow pairings, we know both the Line Bred Snow trait and Mack trait is passed on because all babies are always a high-white (LBS) and have reduced spotting (LBS), but can also produce Super Snows if bred to another Snow (Mack).

Also, just by noticing other traits in the babies, you can tell they inherit from both parents, not just one or the other. Our babies will get the mother's look and the father's size (he's 135 grams), or they exhibit weird personality traits of the mother, etc.. So any LBS/Mack pairing, whether from Albey, TUG, or whatever, will produce babies that can be described as just that, LBS/Mack Snows.

Here's some pictures to give you an idea of how the offspring looked from our pairing:

Dad, Mack Snow:

Mom, Line Bred Snow (Albey):

babies, hatchlings:

Juveniles:

Adults:

Griffith (115 grams):

Twilight (75 grams at 8 months old):

Hatoke:

Anput:

When you breed Tangerines, the babies have varying degrees of Tangerine. The Line Bred Snow is no different from the Tangerine line bred trait. We have hatched out varying degrees between normal and Snow. We have hatched the regular bright yellow/black babies, and white/black babies; but also, babies that are golden yellow/black.. the golden yellow tends to fade and the babies become very white like Snows:

 

[robin]

that is some excellent info for sure! i love how you are able to show photos as well as give your findings. it does make sens though.

thank you for posting

p.s. i think some people are afraid to talk about this because you are "mixing" snows where it should not be a problem, if anything it might just add to the beauty of the snows.

 

[Herp_junky]

Very nice Leos. I haven't had the pleasure of working with Snows yet but I hope to pick some up by next season.

 

[fallen_angel]

that is some excellent info for sure! i love how you are able to show photos as well as give your findings. it does make sens though.

thank you for posting

p.s. i think some people are afraid to talk about this because you are "mixing" snows where it should not be a problem, if anything it might just add to the beauty of the snows.

Thanks for the comments

And yes, I beleive so too.. when we first started breeding these two, we weren't aware they were two totally different kinds of genes.. we figured we'd get 25% normals, 50% Snows, and 25% Super Snows. The reason we wanted to do this pairing was to make sure our babies were high-white, so essentially, whiter Mack Snows.

I have always felt (even though it's never been said to my face), that some people may be upset about me mixing the two different genes.. I appreciate your support, Robin. I could tell that some people were upset about the pairing because they thought it was worthless if you couldn't tell the difference in the Snow babies - expecting a person would hatch out both Macks and Line Breds seperately and be unable to distinguish them. However, they definitely seem to be a combination of both. To me, we've simply produced a Snow that looks Line Bred, but also carries the Mack gene so that when bred back to itself, it can produce Super Snows.

Although I have yet to prove this myself personally, we will see what % of SS we get from these Snows breeding with each other in 2011.

Very nice Leos. I haven't had the pleasure of working with Snows yet but I hope to pick some up by next season.

Thanks

 

[robin]

well if they are mad, so be it. i think these crosses have the possibility to produce some amazingly white animals!

i have one pair of tug/mack snows. i will definitely be divulging what is LB what is LB X MACK and what is MACK. as long as we are truthful in representing our animals no one should have any problems with that.

 

[Tony C]

I personally don't see snow mixes as being a problem like albino mixes. No matter what you will get some kind of snow when you breed the offspring, unlike albino crosses.

 

[fallen_angel]

I definitely felt a lot better about the issue of mixing the Snows when Kelli bought one from us.. I thought, "Well if the owner of Gecko Forums wants one, then they must not be that highly frowned upon." LOL

 

[infamousJokeR]

i think they look beautiful!

 

[JaZ]

Very interesting. You have a very exciting project on your hands. I'm happy for you. Thanks for the info!

 

[fallen_angel]

Thank you

A good friend of mine also pointed out that it would be a good idea if I could find a LBS male from Albey.. considering Albey's LBS line is ever decreasing since he stopped producing them himself, it would be good to produce more pure LBS' too

 

[robin]

i have a pure female but i have no male

 

[Kristi23]

I love your snows Jess!

I'm doing one more season of gem/line bred snow crosses. I just love how the babies look. But I'm also doing a gem x gem enigma cross for pure gems. I sold all the babies super fast last year, so some people liked them. I know others think everything should be kept pure.

I'm hoping to get a nice male from you this year so I can breed it to my tug snow in the future.

 

[Neill]

I have a SS male from albey. Have a SS from goreptiles and a albino mack snow from cold blooded pets. He says he gets all his macks from John and Amy Mack.

PS if i where to breed albeys SS to a normal and get just (snows) and line breed them?

 

[robin]

if albey says you have a mack super snow then that is what you have. if you were to have an albey line bred snow x mack snow he would tell you that too. of course you can line breed ANY type of snow to produce prettier snows


as far as getting macks straight from the macks. it really doesnt mattter. 98% of snows out there are mack snows

jess lets say you took two LBS (which i know will not make a super snow) would each baby be the same way? part lets say tug lbs and albey lbs?

 

[fallen_angel]

Kristi, thanks, I love yours too!!! I was trying so hard to get one of yours that apparently some other breeder had and was selling.. but couldn't really afford it at the time and he wasn't interested in any trades. I should have just bought from you last year but every time I looked at your page, most were already sold (yours go FAST!) I still wanted to get one from you one of these days.. I'll have to hold back a male for you, our LBS female isn't laying many fertile eggs as she usually does (although this is her third season in a row, she needs a break next year for sure), and I don't know how many babies we'll get from her. I want to keep one, and I have two others that want one too.

Also, this season, all LBS babies will not be from Mack x LBS, they will be from LBS x Nova.. so we'll make LBS het. RAPTORs, but they won't have any Mack in them.

Neill, yeah, Albey sells Macks too.. we have a Mack Snow fascio. cross Enigma from him..

his Snows, whether they be Line Bred or Mack, are usually very high-white and great quality. But yeah, as Robin said, your geckos from Albey are only Line Bred Snow if they were labeled as such. You could line breed the Snows you produce if you'd like to, sounds like a good place to start (with Albey's genes)

Robin.. I think so.. I mean, you will always have varying degrees of yellow, but yeah, I think if you did that, you would have a mixture of the two lines, not just one or the other. I've seen TUG/Gem Snows around somewhere..

 

[fallen_angel]

I'm really curious about the people breeding Line Bred Snows specifically.. I mean, do they always hatch out black and white, or do they still get babies that look yellow/black but turn out very white as adults? Or another way to put it, can you hatch normal, non-Snows from LBS?

I'm wondering if some of the geckos that I think are "normal" are actually lower quality LBS'.. someone else brought this to my attention the other day, saying that if I hatch this baby (pictured below) from LBS x Nova, couldn't it possibly be a LBS Enigma, just lower quality since it isn't black/white? I mean, would this baby be able to produce Snows once it's older? So many questions.. Kristi, do you have any idea?

 

[Neill]

Believe me anyone that comes to house loves Genius (are SS male from albey). Hes got a great smile and very friendly gecko however he only eats on his time. Hes down to 54 grams so trying to get the grams back on before hookin him up again. Hes a pain when it comes to food!

 

[robin]

I'm really curious about the people breeding Line Bred Snows specifically.. I mean, do they always hatch out black and white, or do they still get babies that look yellow/black but turn out very white as adults? Or another way to put it, can you hatch normal, non-Snows from LBS?

I'm wondering if some of the geckos that I think are "normal" are actually lower quality LBS'.. someone else brought this to my attention the other day, saying that if I hatch this baby (pictured below) from LBS x Nova, couldn't it possibly be a LBS Enigma, just lower quality since it isn't black/white? I mean, would this baby be able to produce Snows once it's older? So many questions.. Kristi, do you have any idea?

well remember albey used to grade his, so maybe *shrug*


hmm i wonder if we can get albey to come over here and get this thoughts ...

 

[fallen_angel]

Neill, I'd love to see a pic of him.. we produced a few SS from Line Bred Snow x Mack Snow (three total, out of 16 babies in two seasons).. should have kept at least one..

 

[fallen_angel]

well remember albey used to grade his, so maybe *shrug*


hmm i wonder if we can get albey to come over here and get this thoughts ...

Yeah, I remember the grades..

It would be cool if Albey had the time.. although he seems like he is always pretty busy, I've only been able to talk with him a little in the past