Mack Snows the next BB?

[ExcessiveHerps]

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=10&de=489017

 

[Stitch]

I don't follow you other then them being cheap. :main_huh:

 

[trizzypballr]

thats rediculous, I cant believe someone would be willing to sell them that cheap, they gotta be loosing money, Im sure they paid a pretty penny for the breeders...

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Hre's my 2 cents:

I think 90 dollars is a really good price for Snow Albinos (regardless of strain). I don't think it is unreasonable to think that the market could be flooded with them next year, so, some people will sell babies for a lower price because they know that the people who are buying these babies won't be able to breed them until next year anyway. At that point alot of breeders will already be selling large numbers of Super SNow Albinos. Therefore, instead of trying to get someone to spend the 200 plus dollars for a adult Snow Albino, they sell a hatchling for 90. It makes perfect sense for them as a cheaper gecko is easier to move, and the seller probably has no desire or need to raise them up to adults as they probably already have produced SS Albinos. Just like Blazings, the initial 1500 to 2000 dolllar sell price of a gecko only stays that way until the person who created the morph sells a few to people who have every intention of breeding. Once a number of breeders produce them, capitalism at it's finest takes over and you have a gecko decrease in average price tenfold over the course of 2 years. As long as more than one person breeds a particular morph that trend will continue. The breeders who are blessed enough to be one of the first few to have their hands on a particular morph are the only ones who will be able to sell them at a premium. Breeders who continue to ask more money for a particular morph than others without offering a superior gecko will have to match the price of the person selling them for the lower $ or be forced to accept a decrease in sales as a result. If someone wants to be the first to lower prices on a morph in an effort to get some sales and set a new market value, more power to them. As breeders, we may not like that some people lower their prices too quickly, but, if they are willling to take little less for something that is only worth more to someone willing to pay more, I think that they made a smart business decision.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Its only $40 dollars less than you sold a Mack Snow Albino for. :main_huh:

Wasnt that one nearly ready to breed?

Could be the reason we are seeing them so cheap right now.

 

[thaveteran]

As long as no one panics this shouldn't drop the value of the morph. So what if one person is willing to sell off what he/she has at a low low price. If know one else lowers their price once this breeder/store is all out thats it. It's like anything else just because I find someone selling a porsche for 500 bucks doesn't mean thats the value of a porsche, just what one person is willing to let his porsche go for. Not until every breeder panics and starts lowering his/her animals does the market value of the morph drop.

 

[papaK]

Hre's my 2 cents:

If someone wants to be the first to lower prices on a morph in an effort to get some sales and set a new market value, more power to them. As breeders, we may not like that some people lower their prices too quickly, but, if they are willling to take little less for something that is only worth more to someone willing to pay more, I think that they made a smart business decision.

I think this is a dumb business move. If people drop their prices on geckos because they don't sell them in one week then why even bother being in the business? Even if they do have albino super snows how long is it goin to be before they're asking $90 for those? You can't make a business out of it if you're willing to take bottom dollar on a morph. I think most breeders would say that they HATE seeing people dropping their prices. (take a look at the Ball Python market) With limited amounts of new morphs showing up in leopard geckos they're all goin to be worthless in 2 years if everyone did that.

 

[PaulSage]

The reptile "industry" isn't immune from basic economics. As supply goes up, price goes down. Anyone expecting a different outcome is in for disappointment.

 

[snared99]

Ok so the drop in macks was been seen coming for a very long time. Now that said $90 is ridiculous, I mean no wonder it is hard to just keep everyone fed at these prices. Now by no means do i mean the mack albinos shoul dbe 500-600 dollars but 90 come on. This is a perfect situation where business take presidence over the community. Larger breeders selling them dirt cheap to make a quick buck and get rid of babies fast. Hopefully people will see the quality in a better geckos from a smaller-medium size breeder and not waste their money on wholesale stock, in which we have no clue of the conditions.
I hope I didnt offend anyone but the market in geckos has always been rocky to say the best. It is no surprise that prices drop(esp. on a non-recessive morph), but there is a limit to the insanity.

 

[paulnj]

I wouldn't buy one of them for the reasons Pat mentions because I am one of the people who wants quality animals over low cost animals.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

Ok so the drop in macks was been seen coming for a very long time. Now that said $90 is ridiculous, I mean no wonder it is hard to just keep everyone fed at these prices. Now by no means do i mean the mack albinos shoul dbe 500-600 dollars but 90 come on. This is a perfect situation where business take presidence over the community. Larger breeders selling them dirt cheap to make a quick buck and get rid of babies fast. Hopefully people will see the quality in a better geckos from a smaller-medium size breeder and not waste their money on wholesale stock, in which we have no clue of the conditions.
I hope I didnt offend anyone but the market in geckos has always been rocky to say the best. It is no surprise that prices drop(esp. on a non-recessive morph), but there is a limit to the insanity.

I agree Pat, I would think and I would hope that other people think that the small/medium size breeders would take more time with the geckos, to insure a healthy well kept gecko, and know that when buying from a small/medium breeder the chances are much better for that breeder to have any records you need for that gecko and probably even records on that geckos parents, but when you deal with the wholesale breeders, chances are some corners are being cut along the way, either in care or record keeping in order to keep producing them mass quantities and move them out the door. I am not saying that is true with all these breeders, but I am sure it comes into play with some. So I think you get way you pay for in most cases. :main_thumbsup:

 

[eyelids]

Yup, I agree with Pat, but Frank made some good points too.

 

[papaK]

I wasn't saying that economics don't apply to the reptile industry... I think a lot of people try to make quick money breeding reptiles.... when things don't work as planned and animals aren't selling as soon as they're posted on kingsnake, a week later they drop prices.

 

[Brian O]

Everyone who is interested in breeding is more than likely already working on albino macks. So if they aren't in yet they are probably breeding hets or making hets for next year. So why would they pay a large price when they can wait another year. I waited a year and got a breeding weight mack for $100 with a bell female instead of paying $1000 last year. After all the animals are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
I can't wait to see how the Raptor market does this year. The color variations will help but I think they will be dropping too.

 

[LeosForLess]

Yeah, pats right. I think people should aim just under or around, not half of everybody else. A drop is expected but from 200 down to 90 is insane. There are still macks going for that!

 

[snared99]

Everyone who is interested in breeding is more than likely already working on albino macks. So if they aren't in yet they are probably breeding hets or making hets for next year. So why would they pay a large price when they can wait another year. I waited a year and got a breeding weight mack for $100 with a bell female instead of paying $1000 last year. After all the animals are only worth what someone is willing to pay for then.
I can't wait to see how the Raptor market does this year. The color variations will help but I think they will be dropping too.

I agree with you on those who want to wait for a better price have every right. And $100 for a breeding size mack is pretty much right on price wise. Now these animals(tremper codom in particular) ended last year selling at around 350-500 for average sized animals. Now it is only 2-3 months later and babies are $90, wow when those people get offspring they will be $20/piece. There comes a time were price has to becomes second on the list. I understand that not everyone wants to jump out and spend $1000-$2000 on a gecko but thats the market, and a reasonable price drop is expected.
I do not agree that macks are the next BB because there is still alot of work to be done with them, while a bb is a bb. THere are just some many more crosses to work with and i dont think the macks are done yet(atleast genetically speaking..lol). I just say to those that pay a low price, and them come to me expecting the same, NO WAY. When weighing quality and the time spend on these animals over a wholesale production, paying alittle more for a animal with better chances is worth it.

 

[tangerineman]

well...

well, I didn't pay $90 for my albino mack, FTR,
and although I like a good bargain just like the next person, if I saw macks going for $90 (or less..eventually?) I would definitely be suspicious of where they were coming from...like the previous poster said (sorry don't remember the name) something is sacrificed to be able to offer them at that price.

a breeder who is pumping them out like a corporate factory is going to slip up, and miss something...like signs of disease, or infections, and is going to sell a load of their babies infected with devastating results...
and after that, they will be done as they will not be able to replace or cannot afford to refund every diseased animal they have sold.
IMHO, in my humble opinion.

alsooes anyone think that the fact they are albino may be adding to the fact they will be easier to sell cheap?
I mean, I wouldn't buy a non-albino mack snow unless I knew what it was going to look like at least somewhat as an adult...there is so much variation, and frankly...I really don't like the way certain non-albino mack crosses look...

the fact it's albino gives it a little less room for variation in appearance...

-D

 

[Gazz]

Same has happen here in the UK they may have a little better price than US but not really for the short time they have been here.They have drop a fair bit albino mack snows only £140 and that's from a rep shop who usually are more expensive than privert breeders.And they have only just come out over here not sure what that amount that pan's out as in US $ .Mack snow are now availble at £60 i'd give it another say 6 mouths and tha'll most likely drop again.This has a lot to do with them being Co-Dom instant result newer morph can be made faster as shown by Kelli's Red eyed bell enigna snow think how long that would take if the mack gene and enigma gene was simple recessive if they was recesive or a bit more harder to make more like RAPOR's.They would with no doutb would have had a deffantly a longer self life.Truthly i can see the same happering to enigmas not sure about US but being a dominant morph instant result it want be long before somone out side of kelli incubates a boy (i beleave kelli's only selling girls at the minute ? maybe only gooooood friends get boys or maybe she keep them all for her self anyway) and wack's it in with what ever amount of females of differant morphs it won't take long for them to spread like wild fire.

It's not all ways cheeper craper some people don't agree with the high price's some even chooseing a good home for the leo over profit and when that done every one else (breeders also) has to follow suit or they won't sell there leo.If i saw a newish morph at a cheeper price and i could view the leo my self and i was happy with the leo i'd buy it and sorry i think a far amount of people here would as well.The only time i won't buy a cheep leo it if they only insised on courier/deliver only coz it most likly as CON but if they let you visit there house'etc that far game.

 

[Brian O]

I called and asked what was up with these. He told me he gets them in bulk from John Mack. Too bad they aren't bells or even rainwaters.
I wish all morphs held their market value. Fact is they drop price and fast. Just two years ago a SHTCB was around $750. This year good luck getting $75, and they're poly genetic. What do you really expect out of co-doms and doms? Especially when the average person still looks at them as disposable pets.

 

[bro paul]

This is why I'm such a proponent of selective line breeding. I'm pretty sure a giant jungle mack snow albino will fetch a decent price for years to come, especially really white ones...although that's not really line breeding (more recessive/co-dom...and a little selective breeding). But with line-breeding (or poly genetic) traits like Brian mentioned above with the SHTCBs, those who put the most work (and $) into a project can actually raise their prices from year to year if they produce something fairly unique. Urban Gecko, Albey, Dan L., Kelli and others are able to produce such cutting edge SHTCBs that they are selling for $500 - $1000 and more. Line breding vs. supply and demand is an interesting concept in the leo community. I know reputation and marketing have a bit to do with it...but, insanely colored/patterned geckos are hard to deny. Now, recessive, dominant, co-dominant triats...that's a different story.