No tail? :S

[roger]

I agree.the animal needs to be culled.there is a great chance that thers internal problems that arent visible now but down the road.The responsibility needs to be with the breeders to put out the best leo possible.Also in my opinion the gecko world would be a lot stronger without the enigma who shows a lot of defects

 

[Pokersnake]

I know there are a lot of heated opinions in this thread. I would like to ask the OP a few questions though.

She eats right and poops right. Does she walk normal? Only the future will tell if she will gain weight normally or shed normally, but I'm curious about that too. Is it possible to get the girl x-rayed? It might be able to point out some other defects if they exist. If you are giving this girl to your sister, will you be there to guide her with any health issues that come up?

My mad scientist side wonders if the animal happened to drop its tail stub, would a normal tail grow back. I know this never should/would be intentionally tested, but the results would definitely tell if this was a genetic or incubation problem. If a normal tail grew back, then it was an incubation/development problem. If a stubby tail grew back, then the animal lacks the genetics to express a normal tail. The animal should still not be bred either way.

I'm aware that in the wild the animal would not have the ability to store fat for times of hardship and it would also lose a defense mechanism. I am of the position of "wait and see." Until there are life quality issues present, I would wait to consider culling the animal. We have extensive medicines available for many of our other pets: dogs with missing limbs, defective never conditions, seizures, cats with diabetes, I even heard of a hedgehog that was on anti-psychotic medications. And none of these animals were destroyed at birth (either through neglect or because of the knowledge of preventative medicine) and many of them lead quality lives.

I don't want to prolong this debate of "to kill or not to kill," but before you kill, make a decision to educate yourself.

 

[Dog Shrink]

I like your theories pokersnake but there is something else to consider... herps don't medicate well, just like rabbits, sometimes the meds cause more harm than help in the long term and generally do little to resolve most ailments. It is sad to say that rabbits are disposable animals but they technically are... they were created as a prey species to feed the higher ups on the food chain... not sure if leos serve asimilar pupose in the wild but judging by how well they respond to medical intervention I would presume so. Certain herbal suppliments that might be used like probiotics to assure the animal is getting maximum nutrients out of their food would be useful, as well as REALLY good multi vit suppliment program BUT in the long term if an animal can't store abundant nutrients all the preventitive aides/supplimentation are going to be useless.

I'd be interested in seeing some imput from Semus here.

 

[Pokersnake]

herps don't medicate well, just like rabbits, sometimes the meds cause more harm than help in the long term and generally do little to resolve most ailments.

Yeah. I forget these things. I am used to dealing with mammals even though I can't keep them anymore.

Rabbits are prey. They are noms. I have vowed to not keep (herbivorous) prey species any more. Though leos are not at the top of the food chain, they are not at the bottom. This is the main reason for the tail detachment defense mechanism. It serves as a good distraction to a predator.

 

[GothicGurrrl]

I would like to add that I love rabbits =]

 

[Dog Shrink]

I would like to add that I love rabbits =]

You'd love to spend the day at my house... I have over 23 rabbits in my rabbitry at the moment.

 

[GothicGurrrl]

You'd love to spend the day at my house... I have over 23 rabbits in my rabbitry at the moment.

Wow I wish
I only have 4 rabbits right now. What breed of rabbits do you have?

 

[Dog Shrink]

In lieu of stealing this thread or taking it any further off track I'll just redirect you to our web site. http://bkgr.spaces.live.com/

 

[GothicGurrrl]

haha okay. wow that video of rabbits show jumping.. i never knew they could do that it's amazing. how do you train them to do that? and awww netherland dwarfs, they are little cuties! but my personal favourites are lionheads

 

[Joao]

I almost culled myself after reading all this... Can't we all just get along?

 

[prettyinpink]

Whew! That was a long read!

And I've said this before, but I'll say it agian. This is exactly why I haven't started breeding yet. I still do have strong opinions about culling, what should be culled and what shouldn't... we all do. I DO agree on culling after I read more and more about it and Brian described it pretty well.

For me I like to read these posts as a test to myself. Seeing your situation or another, and asking myself if I would've culled it. I was a lot like you though Keegan, not wanting to put down the animal because it's fine 'or looks healthy'. And even so it COULD be perfectly healthy, we don't know for a fact if it's not 'healthy' per say. But even so if we don't talk about being healthy it's a major deformity.

Personally, just my opinion. If I was in your shoes I would've culled it. Breaks my heart, and I just can't imagine how hard it is, breeders all the time tell me how hard it is. But it's what you have to do. I'm not going to go into detail as all the others have already done that so it's not needed. I just would've culled it for the simple fact that it doesn't have a tail...which is where they store their food and considering it's not going to grow back, which is why it's a deformity...it is going to have problems. So not including anything else, just it's missing tail it'll have problems.

As for your age, I wasn't even looking at that until you pointed that out. There are a ton of people that are respected breeders at the age of 16.

M_surinamensis- I respect a lot of what he says...but I also disagree with others, his posts are more blunt and I think we need that more. We've already had another discusion in another thread about culling, and he was very helpful. I think sometimes people may take what he says wrong as an attack, when he's just being blunt...I know I have. And I think that this is one of the few threads he has been less harsh. I actually thought he was being surprisingly nice on his last few posts.

Long story short, thanks for this thread. If you didn't learn anything, I know I did

 

[roger]

All I know is I havnt read this much since I was in high school LOL