Normal Enigmas for $15????????

[AntMan612]

Well, it's sad that something so harmless and close to the heart as gecko breeding is also not immune to the evil practices of the corrupt and greedy.

 

[MelissaDiane]

We were at the Hamburg, PA reptile expo on 10/18/08. We picked up several business cards of Gecko Vendors. I can tell you that they were all going very cheap. As a matter of fact I bought one for $20 Co-Down Snow Reverse stripe Het Raptor. & another one for $40. which is a Jungle Co-down Snow. I might have the spelling wrong on the Co-down? I am trying to read his writing on the container they came in. I am no expert on morphs:main_huh: I didn't realize Engimas were so expensive. I am a novice so I wouldn't know. I just go by what I like in looks. I am sure there were some Engimas going for at least $20. They were all pretty cheap (under $100). I went there expecting to pay at least $100. but then we saw $20. for so many nice looking ones that we couldn't just bring one home so we got two I am sure there may have been some on the higher side but I was shocked at how cheap they were. I can tell you there must of been 1000 people just waiting to get in when we got there in the morning. It was packed! This was our first Reptile Expo we went too.

What is making the Engimas so expensive? Are they a new morph out? I am learning.

 

[Hacksaw]

i know that shows are cheap...but i $15 is just ridiculous..

 

[Nigel4less]

It is, and the vendors whoever they are should be ashamed for crashing the market on these gorgeous animals.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

whoever they are should be ashamed for crashing the market on these gorgeous animals.

I agree. For whatever reason they are dumping enigmas into the market, it is apparent that they have no regard for the integrity of the morph, the market, or the rest of the breeders who have worked so hard with this incredible morph.

The good news is, that these discount geckos will sell off, and the market can hopefully restore for the rest of us. I think that $2500 was w-a-a-y to much to pay a couple of years ago, but anything under $100 is shameful.

 

[bohannbj]

Part of the problem is that enigmas are dominant and people bred their entire stock to a single male. It's like people forgot about all the other morphs and went enigma crazy, so they had tons of them to move. It's always good sense to diversify your "portfolio" so as to not flood a single market, and get hosed in the process.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

You know, I would rather see a breeder with too many geckos discreetly sell them to a wholesaler than flood the market with $15 enigmas. It REALLY hurts the leopard gecko community when a few rogue breeders pull the rug out from under the rest of us.

 

[Untide]

No matter what you breed things like this will happen.

 

[Nigel4less]

No matter what you breed things like this will happen.

And the People that cause these things need to Go-Away from this Tight Knit community, and take their unethical behavior elsewhere.

 

[supperl]

Ohh thats cheap.... but honestly I also was able to get Enigmas for good price but as a friendship price.
But to say one thing, I was already a few month ago sure that something like this would happen and I also thought it would happen in Germany.
Honestly their are High Yellows that are nicer than some of the normal Enigmas I´ve seen.
ppl search for the better quality Enigmas and not for normal Enigmas.
That´s why I won´t brred normal Enigmas.

Let´s all hope this will find an ende soon....

 

[Franks_Geckos]

I am trying to fathom how many geckos one would need to produce, let alone Enigmas, to sell Enigmas in lots for $15 each. I can only imagine that the person who breeds this many geckos and hasn't yet developed a name for themself or a reputation as a good breeder, probably won't stay in the hobby too long and probably will move onto the next big thing (not necessarily a leo morph) pretty quickly to ruin that market too. People who see their geckos as money making machines typically fail to realize that the hobby of breeding reptiles, particularly one as popular as the Leopard Gecko, is not a wise venture (purely from a business perspective). The number of breeders in the hobby already is overwhelming and there have been people breeding them on a large scale for a very long time, so it's not like someone new is going to become the King or Queen of the gecko world by outproducing and outselling the competition overnight. It just won't happen. Someone like this can however, seriously damage the market and hurt the feelings of other breeders who invested time and money into the same morphs. It doesn't cost alot to incubate eggs, but raising a gecko for a few months costs a bit more, and it is clear that someone who would sell Enigmas for 15 dollars has no interest in wasting their time and money raising anything and that the motivation to sell a morph like an Enigma for 15 dollars could have only been quick cash. The sad part is that a fool and their money soon part and there will always be some fools to buy from someone like this and perpetuate the existence of people who ruin the market for everyone else. I can't even bring myself to sell a normal for less than 20 at a show, and I still manage to find people to buy normals. Just My 2 cents.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well said, Frank!!!

The sad part is that a fool and their money soon part and there will always be some fools to buy from someone like this and perpetuate the existence of people who ruin the market for everyone else.

I have heard from very reliable sources 'who' has done this, and it certainly was NOT anyone new or without a big name! IMO, they have no regard whatsoever for any of the rest of us in this breeding community. They made a serious error in judgment by overproducing Enigmas in order to flood the market, which I feel was a deliberate attempt to pull the rug out from under the market. I was told last season that this was their plan, but didn't want to believe it. We saw some of it at the Daytona Show last August as well.

These culprits only come here on GeckoForums.net to show off their gecko photos so everyone else will go "oooooh and ahhhhh" in order to promote their own sales. You will never see them post anything of value here on the forums to help other members with their gecko questions or issues, or contribute to this community in any other way.

These people do not care about the rest of the breeders who have worked equally hard, nor do they care about the market. They don't care about their customers or the gecko community, and certainly don't care about the geckos! They only care about power and money.

To me, it's a shame that this is going on. It is the geckos that are ultimately the losers because they cannot receive the care they require when produced in huge numbers, and are nothing more than inventory items. Selling geckos to the general public at prices at or below wholesale value only promotes the 'disposable pet' mentality with bargain hunter buyers.

In essence, they are fliping their middle finger at all of us .

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Well said, Frank!!!

I have heard from very reliable sources 'who' has done this, and it certainly was NOT anyone new or without a big name! ..........
In essence, they are fliping their middle finger at all of us .

Marcia,
I'll guess I'll be on the lookout at upcoming Northeast shows to see if this is an ongoing thing, but I haven't seen it yet myself. Of course, I only sell at White Plains for the most part, so I may not be "in the know" as much as some others. It really is a shame though, and when I first caught wind of this, I also thought that only a person who deliberately wanted to ruin the market would do something like that. I would be disappointed to find out if it was someone I may be friendly with (within the community), because that would essentially be a flipping of the middle finger to everyone like you said. It is like "All for one and none for the rest". Of course, again, only my 2 cents. Now I am going to go nuts thinking about this some more (who, why, etc)!

 

[Untide]

Pictures or it isn't true. I have heard of Enigmas for adoption for 15$ but thats usually just a single gecko looking for a new home. I am not a believer of internet stories like this mostly because so many people make things up for God who knows why. Sorry if this seems rude not saying anyone here is a liar, just saying I have my doubts without pictures.

Oh and I would buy every single enigma if I saw a vendor for 15 dollars...Heck if I saw a norm for 15 I would be interested.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Shaun, you are more than welcome to your opinions. But, if you are trolling, then that isn't going over well.

 

[SaSobek]

Well said, Frank!!!

I have heard from very reliable sources 'who' has done this, and it certainly was NOT anyone new or without a big name! IMO, they have no regard whatsoever for any of the rest of us in this breeding community. They made a serious error in judgment by overproducing Enigmas in order to flood the market, which I feel was a deliberate attempt to pull the rug out from under the market. I was told last season that this was their plan, but didn't want to believe it. We saw some of it at the Daytona Show last August as well.

These culprits only come here on GeckoForums.net to show off their gecko photos so everyone else will go "oooooh and ahhhhh" in order to promote their own sales. You will never see them post anything of value here on the forums to help other members with their gecko questions or issues, or contribute to this community in any other way.

These people do not care about the rest of the breeders who have worked equally hard, nor do they care about the market. They don't care about their customers or the gecko community, and certainly don't care about the geckos! They only care about power and money.

To me, it's a shame that this is going on. It is the geckos that are ultimately the losers because they cannot receive the care they require when produced in huge numbers, and are nothing more than inventory items. Selling geckos to the general public at prices at or below wholesale value only promotes the 'disposable pet' mentality with bargain hunter buyers.

In essence, they are fliping their middle finger at all of us .

or maybe it is you that is fliping your middle finger at us again. :main_thumbsup:

I said it before and i will say it again if you have a problem with me or any one to do with A&M geckos you can be a grown up and call me. i will be more then happy to let you know what is going on, our priceing why it is what it is, how many geckos we have, how many mealworms they each eat, their age, sex, who there parents are and grandparents for that matter, there zodiac sign, what side of the cage they like to poop on. and any other hard pressing question you may have. like what do i like to watch on tv while i am cleaning gecko poop. what my thought is on world politics, where i think the gecko market is going. ......... im all ears.

in the end its your world i just live in it. thank you "mean old gecko lady" for letting me be such a big part of you life. :main_thumbsup:


Love Matt

Pictures or it isn't true. I have heard of Enigmas for adoption for 15$ but thats usually just a single gecko looking for a new home. I am not a believer of internet stories like this mostly because so many people make things up for God who knows why. Sorry if this seems rude not saying anyone here is a liar, just saying I have my doubts without pictures.

Oh and I would buy every single enigma if I saw a vendor for 15 dollars...Heck if I saw a norm for 15 I would be interested.

good point

 

[Mel&Keith]

I don't recall anyone saying your name or A&M's...

 

[SaSobek]

I don't recall anyone saying your name or A&M's...

well when Others from the forum call me and ask if i saw what was posted about us on the forum. i tend to look and yea get alittle craby. Sorry

 

[Mel&Keith]

Well, no one said that it was you (or A&M) except for you taking offense to it. Can you understand why the Leopard Gecko community might be upset with anyone selling any morph at wholesale prices to the public (which is what this thread is about)?

 

[KelliH]

Oi vey...I'm closing this thread. Anyone that wants to talk about this in personal terms, please do me a favor and take it pm. I'm trying to get over a mean case of stomach flu and pretty much just don't feel like dealing with this right now. Thanks.