Origin of the Enigma quite possible very much doutb it ?

[Gazz]

I was thinking 'I know need more leo's to much time on my hands':main_yes:.Anyway have you seen Alex Hue mack calico ? whitch came from breeding a mack super snow X mack ghost AKA dominant hypo whitch i beleave is a spotless body mack pastel-(remember i said mack ghost NOT mack snow ghost they aren't the same) could the mack calico be the begining of the enigma ?.Do you get full black eyes from enigma x enigma ? is it possible at all for maybe dominant from the mack pastel & ghost to class with the co-dom of the mack super snow side ? and work ing a really stange way.kelliH red eyed enigma's these one's anyway i think have a mack pastely/snowy mix look about them.Dose any one know who owns the mum & dad of the first enigma was it captive or wild caught ???.I also find it a bit sus that no more has been said about calico but enigma's are poping up out the blue maybe nothing maybe the calico hit a dead end and it'd not genetic or maybe the calico is the enigma ??.Could someone just clean up how the genetic's work ? be most grateful just use enigma and normal as examples.Id be interested to know if enigma X enigma dose or has as of yet worked in a mack super snowy way this morph is new to me as to most of use so just testing the water for the lateist.

i know that enigmas are dominant-!right! can you get normal het enigma for example;
enigma x normal = enigma and normal ?.
or
enigma x normal = enigma and normal het enigma ?.

 

[eyelids]

No.

 

[LeosForLess]

No.

couldnt have said it better, it came from the bells mass breeding, as in Mark bell himself, the finder of the bell albino.

 

[Gazz]

No.

A bit sharp :behead: but OK .How do the gecnetic roughly work ?,

enigma x enigma= ??;
enigma x normal = ??;

is there such a thing as normal het enigma ? if so how do they work;
enigma x normal het enigma = ??;
normal het enigma x normal het enigma = ??;

Also mark bell dose he have a web site i know he's very much so a respected leo breeder but i can't find a trace of him on the web ?.

 

[robin]

did you ask kelli or alex permission to use their photos before posting this thread?

 

[Gazz]

did you ask kelli or alex permission to use their photos before posting this thread?

i've just had a slap on the rist for that by message :bigcry: SORRY i thought it was only a big no'no if you was to clam they was yours that's why i put the owners names on the pictures sorry if i've offened the owners .

 

[robin]

well that is one reason. but to alter or change, redistribute in any way is also a violation of copyright infringement. the only reason i know is because my hobby is photography. this is just a slight mishap. dont stress on it

 

[eyelids]

Seriously though, that was a good idea and I know I've come up with plenty of crazy ones.

Roughly put, Enigma are dominant.

Enigma x Enigma = 100% Enigma
Enigma x Normal = 50% Enigma / 50% Normal

 

[cjreptiles]

Seriously though, that was a good idea and I know I've come up with plenty of crazy ones.

Roughly put, Enigma are dominant.

Enigma x Enigma = 100% Enigma
Enigma x Normal = 50% Enigma / 50% Normal

It would depend on whether the enigma had one allele coding for the enigma phenotype or two (as, being a domninant morph, it would look the same either way). I guess most if not all of the ones available at the moment have just one (Ee), so you are correct, from an Enigma x Normal you would get 50/50. However, if the enigma had two mutated alleles (ee), when bred with a normal all offspring would be enigmas (Ee). So you should (in theory) get either 50% enigma offspring or 100% enigma offspring when mating with a normal.

As I have explained to you before, Gazz. And there is still no such thing as a het enigma.

 

[Kotsay1414]

As I have explained to you before, Gazz. And there is still no such thing as a het enigma.

The Het version of the Enigma gene is the Non Red Eyed Enigma, just like the Het version of the Giant trait is a Regular Giant and a Mack Snow is the Het version of a Super Snow.

 

[cjreptiles]

The Het version of the Enigma gene is the Non Red Eyed Enigma, just like the Het version of the Giant trait is a Regular Giant and a Mack Snow is the Het version of a Super Snow.

Red eyed enigmas are enigmas that are homozygous for the albino gene.

 

[eyelids]

You know we haven't been shown a Enigma Bell hatchling from regular Enigma parents or an outcrossing... The Enigma Bell babies shown so far came from Enigma Bell x Enigma Bell and the regular one came from Enigma Bell x Patternless. There's the crazy Tang Enigma Bell which some think it is an Electric Tang Cross, but who knows...

EDIT: I'm not saying that the red eyed form is a super... I know it's from albinism...

 

[cjreptiles]

It would depend on whether the enigma had one allele coding for the enigma phenotype or two (as, being a domninant morph, it would look the same either way). I guess most if not all of the ones available at the moment have just one (Ee), so you are correct, from an Enigma x Normal you would get 50/50. However, if the enigma had two mutated alleles (ee), when bred with a normal all offspring would be enigmas (Ee). So you should (in theory) get either 50% enigma offspring or 100% enigma offspring when mating with a normal.

As I have explained to you before, Gazz. And there is still no such thing as a het enigma.

Also...just to add to my previous post. If you bred two of these "Ee" enigmas together, you would get 25% EE's (enigmas), 75% Ee's (also enigmas), and 25% normals. So you won't always get 100% enigmas by breeding two togther.

On the other hand, if you have an individual homozygous for the enigma gene (EE), whatever you breed it with you will always get enigmas, as its offspring will always have at least one 'E' and hence will be phenotypically "enigma".

Obviously the only way to know whether you have an "EE" or "Ee" enigma is by test breeding (unless one of the parents was non-enigma, then it would definitely be "Ee" OR both parents were "EE" enigmas!). I would assume that the enigmas currently available on the market are Ee - and thus will give less enigma offspring than EE individuals - as they may well have been crossed into a trait like the Bell albino.

 

[Kotsay1414]

EDIT: I'm not saying that the red eyed form is a super... I know it's from albinism...

In all 3 cases, it really isn't a super form, it is a Homozygous Form

 

[Gazz]

Also...just to add to my previous post. If you bred two of these "Ee" enigmas together, you would get 25% EE's (enigmas), 75% Ee's (also enigmas), and 25% normals. So you won't always get 100% enigmas by breeding two togther.

On the other hand, if you have an individual homozygous for the enigma gene (EE), whatever you breed it with you will always get enigmas, as its offspring will always have at least one 'E' and hence will be phenotypically "enigma".

Obviously the only way to know whether you have an "EE" or "Ee" enigma is by test breeding (unless one of the parents was non-enigma, then it would definitely be "Ee" OR both parents were "EE" enigmas!). I would assume that the enigmas currently available on the market are Ee - and thus will give less enigma offspring than EE individuals - as they may well have been crossed into a trait like the Bell albino.

Yes i know i don't mean to affend you i'm not saying i don't beleave you i just would like it second by a credible breeder ie KelliH etc who has had grate success with them.who is your sorce that this is the way the genetic in enigma work as they are a very new morph ??.Who has bred a enigma to a normal and got 100% enigma ?.I don't mean enigma X normal say 4 eggs layed all enigma as that not bullet prof.More like enigma x normal say 8 eggs layed all enigma that i would be conviced you onto someting.

 

[Gazz]

couldnt have said it better, it came from the bells mass breeding, as in Mark bell himself, the finder of the bell albino.

Just looked at Alex Hue site he Has bell albino mack snows and other mack blood het bell and still has some mack snow het bell so can you say 100% say that mark bell not knowing or knowing buy a some at one point when ever.Some albino mack snows or mack pastel or ghost het bell with calico blood or maybe even invested a visual calico het bell albino or two off Alex Hue or brught off some one else that leads back to Alex Hue or some with the same kind of line ??.

 

[okapi]

Alex Hue did alot of amazing work with the mack snows. Some of that work was breeding macks to albinos. Thats how he got the mack snow albinos. The Enigmas are a completely different gene. Mark Bell discovered them and then let Kelli breed them to see what all was possible with the new morph, and find out more about its genetics. She has done amazing things with the Enigma. As for Alex Hue's calico mack, youd have to ask him about it, it is itself an "enigma" and by that I mean not understood. It is different than the Enigma morph though. I got a nice mack super snow female from him for christmas (from my mom, she bought it from him).

The mack ghosts are mack snow ghosts. He was trying to find a way to produce a completely colorless patternless gecko and so he crossed them with the ghost morph (which is a hypomelanistic gene that looks like a SHT). All mack ghosts are het for super snow and ghost at the same time. Mack Pastels are a different morph that popped out of the mack project early on. I think you confused the two maybe. :main_robin:

 

[robin]

Just looked at Alex Hue site he Has bell albino mack snows and other mack blood het bell and still has some mack snow het bell so can you say 100% say that mark bell not knowing or knowing buy a some at one point when ever.Some albino mack snows or mack pastel or ghost het bell with calico blood or maybe even invested a visual calico het bell albino or two off Alex Hue or brught off some one else that leads back to Alex Hue or some with the same kind of line ??.

gazz i would bet my left pinky he gets (as in still does.. possible reselling or something) or has gotten in the past animals directly from mark bell. :main_thumbsup:

 

[cjreptiles]

Yes i know i don't mean to affend you i'm not saying i don't beleave you i just would like it second by a credible breeder ie KelliH etc who has had grate success with them.who is your sorce that this is the way the genetic in enigma work as they are a very new morph ??.Who has bred a enigma to a normal and got 100% enigma ?.I don't mean enigma X normal say 4 eggs layed all enigma as that not bullet prof.More like enigma x normal say 8 eggs layed all enigma that i would be conviced you onto someting.

My source is KelliH reporting that the enigma is a dominant trait. If this is correct - and there is no reason to doubt it is - then that is how it would work. A simple understanding of genetics would tell anyone that.

I'm not sure anyone has bred a normal to an enigma and got 100% enigma because there probably aren't any (or very few) EE enigmas, as they would require two enigmas to be bred together (assuming the original enigma wasn't an EE itself).

 

[Sandra]

As I have explained to you before, Gazz. And there is still no such thing as a het enigma.

Well, actually any Ee would be an Enigma het, since that just means that only one of the two alleles are from the Enigma gene, and the other isn't, even if it is phenotipically an Enigma. People need to learn to separate the meaning of being het/homozygous and being dominant/recessive, etc.

All genetic morphs produce het or homozygous animals in the same way, the only thing that changes is their appearance.