Our leo tragedy

[leolovinfamily]

I raised and bred leos ~20 years ago, so when my 11 year old son wanted one for Christmas this year, we were all very excited. Francisco was fairly mature when we got her and was about 6 inches long today. My son has been an excellent caretaker. Tonight we went to the petstore to get crickets and mealworms, as we always have. But the only mealworms they had were very small, so the salesperson suggested the super waxworms. We had never fed her supers before, so we asked if their jaws were a problem. He assured us that these worms were the perfect size for our gecko and that if we were concerned we could pinch the heads. So we bought these, came home, pinched the heads, and fed Francisco 3 supers. We were not too careful about pinching the heads because the salesperson ensured us that these worms had small jaws and could not eat through. Francisco was dead within 1/2 hour. There is a hole in the side of her stomach. We are all devastated by this mistake.

I called the petstore and complained... I thought the salesperson was misinformed. But after reading posts in this forum, it seems like everyone recommends super worms. Why did this happen to Francisco on the first try with supers? Has no one else had this happen to their geckos? Now I don't know what is going on. I had heard of this problem years back and always ripped the heads off the large waxworms. But is that something that we should have done with the supers?

I can't imagine a worse fate than the one Francisco suffered tonight. Please let us know what we did wrong!!!

 

[Kotori]

Oh wow that's pretty creepy...there's a poll 'if your gecko has been killed by eating mealworms' check out that thread and they'll help you. The only reason I can think of....Did she actually eat them? Was she able to crunch it? It's been proven that not many things survive crunching, and die within 30 seconds of being swallowed. Of course, if a few mealies (or waxies) were just in with her, than they probably ate her from the outside.And, at 6 inches long, I really don't think she should be getting Giant- they are the ones that are huge, and...I personally don't feed my similarly sized gecko anything bigger than the medium of Fluker.

Sorry for your loss =(

 

[LzzrdBoy]

This is extremely sad. I'm so sorry for you and your Son's loss. There has been an ongoing debate among gecko keepers regarding this very issue. I will be very interested to see what other, more seasoned owners will have to say.

Take care and thanks for sharing your story.

 

[iNSOMNiAC]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Sadly, I have no advice to give...But now I'm worried about the superworms in Rose's case. She's over 6 inches, but I hear these guys can have a bad bite if you're not careful. D: Wonder if I should ditch them.

Edit: Considering she hasn't been paying attention to them, yeah...I'm ditching the superworms. :S

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I raised and bred leos ~20 years ago, so when my 11 year old son wanted one for Christmas this year, we were all very excited. Francisco was fairly mature when we got her and was about 6 inches long today. My son has been an excellent caretaker. Tonight we went to the petstore to get crickets and mealworms, as we always have. But the only mealworms they had were very small, so the salesperson suggested the super waxworms. We had never fed her supers before, so we asked if their jaws were a problem. He assured us that these worms were the perfect size for our gecko and that if we were concerned we could pinch the heads. So we bought these, came home, pinched the heads, and fed Francisco 3 supers. We were not too careful about pinching the heads because the salesperson ensured us that these worms had small jaws and could not eat through. Francisco was dead within 1/2 hour. There is a hole in the side of her stomach. We are all devastated by this mistake.

I called the petstore and complained... I thought the salesperson was misinformed. But after reading posts in this forum, it seems like everyone recommends super worms. Why did this happen to Francisco on the first try with supers? Has no one else had this happen to their geckos? Now I don't know what is going on. I had heard of this problem years back and always ripped the heads off the large waxworms. But is that something that we should have done with the supers?

I can't imagine a worse fate than the one Francisco suffered tonight. Please let us know what we did wrong!!!

I'm sorry you lost your pet. It's always devastating........

Are we talking about waxworms or superworms? They are not the same feeder insect.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Superworms mealworms, dubia roaches*, and crickets are all excellent feeders for leopard geckos, and available at most supply sources. Waxworms are junk food and should be used very sparingly to avoid crack-like addiction. Always use appropriately sized insects for the animals. Overfeeding can cause a whole new set of issues.

It's a good idea to have a back-up feeder, such as a spare box of mealworms stored in the fridge, in case the regular source is not available. Running out of food means being at the mercy of whatever the pet shops have, and it may not be something you would want to feed your animals.

*no non-native roach feeders are legal in Florida.

 

[eyelids]

View attachment 39212

 

[iNSOMNiAC]

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Eh?

 

[tlbowling]

View attachment 39212

Ya think we need to bust that out??

 

[iNSOMNiAC]

Ya think we need to bust that out??

I'unno. As far-fetched as this sounds, it seems legit?

And why would anyone troll a gecko forum, anyways? lol :B

 

[fuzzylogix]

i have over 200 leos that are on a main staple of superworms. i have never had this issue and believe it to be a myth. i even feed my small juvies baby supers with no ill effects.

 

[iNSOMNiAC]

i have over 200 leos that are on a main staple of superworms. i have never had this issue and believe it to be a myth. i even feed my small juvies baby supers with no ill effects.

Well, that settles that. [For me, at least.]

 

[Kristi23]

View attachment 39212

That was my first thought when I read that post.

The bugs are chewed and swallowed. The acids in the stomach would kill anything that may have survived the chewing.

This has been a myth for many years and a favorite of chain retail store employees.

 

[IslaReina]

Yeah I'm gonna go with the same thing that Kotori suggested. Did you watch her eat them? Because if not, I'm assuming they chewed at her from the outside. Like Kristi said, there is not a very good chance that they could survive being eaten.

 

[acpart]

I also feed most of my adults superworms (not waxworms). I have fed superworms to juveniles as small as 11 grams with no problems. It's a useful feeder for geckos who aren't good hunters, need something good-sized that moves but not too fast and can't seem to catch crickets. That said, I had an experience once with a gecko that had just eaten some crickets and when I picked her up too soon, she regurgitated. The crickets that came up were still moving. So I guess it's theoretically possible for a feeder to remain alive a very short time after being swallowed. Most of the geckos I feed superworms too take them in their mouths and crunch them along the worm's length till they get to the head and then they crunch that. Sometimes the gecko crunches the head and then drops the superworm. I had one gecko that ate too superworms, squealed and died. My brother who's a (non-reptile) vet did a necroscopy but discovered nothing that could be attributed to the worms.

So I don't know what happened. If the gecko actually swallowed the worm and then it ate a hole in its side this would be a very unusual occurrance but, given the information above, not totally impossible.

Aliza

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I think this post is legitimate, and I am very sorry your son lost his beloved leopard gecko in this way. I know this may sound calloused, but did yo happen to get a photograph of this?

I used to think it was a myth that superworms could eat through a gecko's stomach, but over the years I have heard several accounts of this happening by some VERY reputable gecko keepers. I saw first-hand the inside of the throat of a leopard gecko that was bitten severely by a superworm, and I personally have been bitten by a superworm and it drew blood.Someone influential on this website described in detail finding one of her geckos dead in the exact same way that was described by the OP.

I still feed my geckos superworms occasionally, but I do pinch the heads with my fingernails first.

 

[Pinky81]

Sooooo sorry for your Leo! I don't really use Supers...the one time I did get them i got bit HARD and since then have been too nervous and freaked out to get near them...I even bought tongs after I got bit! Im agreeing with Marcia on this one!

 

[ElapidSVT]

i've been feeding everything, hatchlings to adults, large superworms for several years now with absolutely no issues due to anything eating from the inside out.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have been feeding supers for 15 years without any issues as well. But after hearing first-hand stories like this one, I started pinching off the heads.

 

[ProGeckoServices]

Here let me shed some light on this for everyone that may be skeptical of whether this is a myth or not. If a gecko, especially a baby consumes one of these worms there are several scenarios that can lead to this rare occurrence. (Keep in mind, a baby's teeth are nowhere near as sharp and an adult gecko's). Superworms who are not otherwise killed when the gecko chews them die instantly the minute their face comes in contract with the acid in a gecko's stomach. They have no ability to filter water, or any other liquid out of their lungs. You can test this but just running a small stream of water over a worms face in the sink and it will be dead within 10 seconds.

1) Superworms have the ability to grip and bite down on surfaces to hold their position. If the baby gecko does not chew the worm and it gets stuck somewhere between the gecko's stomach and its mouth then it can still survive. Also note that these worms regularly chew their way out of the plastic containers they come in at the store. So a gecko's stomach would be an easy task for them.

2) The worm is too large and the baby gecko does not have enough stomach acid to kill the worm. In this case, the worm's head never comes in contact with the stomach acid and there is not enough to otherwise kill it before it has time to eat through the stomach lining.

Bottom Line - If your going to feed your gecko's supers make sure they are the appropriate size, the only time I have ever heard of this occurring tends to be when the gecko eats a worm much larger than what it should be fed or consumes to many at once. You wouldn't expect to be able to swallow