Prooving and Disproving a Het.

[Hankj]

Let's say I acquire a Giant het. Tremper. I then breed this gecko to a normal and then I have male possible hets.

Now lets say I breed this possible het to a Tremper female or several Tremper females. I get 10 babies all het tremper.

Would this be enough to prove to you that this gecko is not het tremper? How many babies would it take? 5? 10? 20? 30? Do you think I could ever call this gecko or its offspring not possible het Tremper?

 

[RampantReptiles]

I asked pretty much the same question a couple months ago. Got an answer http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=80877

 

[Wolvenspawn]

I asked pretty much the same question a couple months ago. Got an answer http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=80877

Thanks for that. That helps rather then playing guessing games.

 

[StellarExotics]

I have a male who i got as a "Het Tremper"... He's is Now PROVEN to infact be. I bred him to 4 females this year... 3 of them Trempers, one of them was a "possible het bell" (I was just after the normals from her anyway)

2 of the Tremper females threw ALLOT of albino babies... Proving he is indeed het Tremper.

1 of the Tremper albino females... in 6 clutches produced 1 albino...

and the "possible het bell" in 8 clutches, all were normals, but the last clutch threw 1 albino...

Why did that one tremper produce only 1 albino?
and where the heck did this albino come from when she was a "possible het bell"

NOW, I have 4 geckos to prove out instead of 1.

Male - prove his possible BELL het
Trem Fem - prove she's not actually a bell
PH bell female - see if she's het tremper
and the albino baby from the Het tremp x ph bell is it a tremper or bell?

I HATE proving hets. LOL

cheers.

 

[endrien]

I have a male who i got as a "Het Tremper"... He's is Now PROVEN to infact be. I bred him to 4 females this year... 3 of them Trempers, one of them was a "possible het bell" (I was just after the normals from her anyway)

2 of the Tremper females threw ALLOT of albino babies... Proving he is indeed het Tremper.

1 of the Tremper albino females... in 6 clutches produced 1 albino...

and the "possible het bell" in 8 clutches, all were normals, but the last clutch threw 1 albino...

Why did that one tremper produce only 1 albino?
and where the heck did this albino come from when she was a "possible het bell"

NOW, I have 4 geckos to prove out instead of 1.

Male - prove his possible BELL het
Trem Fem - prove she's not actually a bell
PH bell female - see if she's het tremper
and the albino baby from the Het tremp x ph bell is it a tremper or bell?

I HATE proving hets. LOL

cheers.

If you thought one of them was possibly bell, you made a big mistake....
You should never mix albino strains, now you have a bunch of normals(Which happens when you mix albino strains, so she is most likely bell)
that are het for both tremper and bell which makes a complete genetic mess and nobody is going to want them.

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49197

 

[JordanAng420]

While it is true that albino strains should not be mixed, if he bred a "possible het bell" to a tremper and got one albino, the gecko is in fact, het for Tremper. That being said, it very well still could be het bell, and therefore should not be bred, IMO.

Sorry For going a little OT, I just wanted to clarify that.

 

[Hankj]

Thanks, Stellar.

I'm sure he's already gotten a lot of crap for this. Can we stay on this topic?

Thanks for the input so far guys.

 

[Hankj]

Thanks for that link Michelle. But I would really like to know your opinion. What would prove it to you? How many babies?

I know if someone told me they had a poss 66% het. Tremper that was bred to two Tremper females producing 10 non albinos I would consider this male gecko to be non het. Tremper albino. But what would it take for you?

 

[RampantReptiles]

I think 10 is a good starting point to say "Yeah I am pretty sure its not het for said albino strain". I would not go out and say "I am 100% sure this is not het albino!" after only 10 babies. I might say that after 30-40 babies.

I also dont have a lot of experience doing this so I am no where near considered an expert. I proved out 2 leos were het tremper this year, and it happened in the first 1-3 clutches LoL. I also proved a leo was het eclipse that was not supposed to be...

I have plans of attempting to breed out the tremper in most of my collection. I assume this will take a few seasons.

 

[Hankj]

Thank you, thank you.

I guess I want to know if after 30-40 non albino babies if you would comfortable breeding this gecko to a RW or Bell?

 

[Thorgecko707]

I think after 30-40 it would be safe. But I would breed the possible het Tremper male to four or five different Tremper females. If nothing came out albino that year it would be safe IMO.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I agree that 10 is no where near enough to rule out being het. I had a 100% het male not prove out until egg 26 from a visual female. Its all an odds game and you don't always hit them in a manner in which works best for you. I wouldn't put an exact egg count but rather a full season with 2 visual females.

As far as how many breeding before I would switch the albino, I personally don't ever switch a female to a different line. I have had female retain sperm and produce from previous years pairings many times...so that could happen and throw a wrench in your plan and purity of lineage. If its a male then I would be comfortable trying another line after a full season of proving to be a non het male. No need to mid season switch IMO.

 

[Hankj]

That's what I was thinking I would do. Take a male poss. het. and breed it to four Tremper females and see what happens. If no Trempers come out that season I might consider breeding that guy to something besides Tremper. Thanks a lot guys!

 

[StellarExotics]

If you thought one of them was possibly bell, you made a big mistake....
You should never mix albino strains, now you have a bunch of normals(Which happens when you mix albino strains, so she is most likely bell)
that are het for both tremper and bell which makes a complete genetic mess and nobody is going to want them.

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49197

Yeah Thanks for your intellectual constipation .:main_thumbsup:

If you read my post I bred him to a NORMAL...... POSSIBLE het bell... Her father was a Poss het bell, and her mother was a NORMAL.

I was after NORMALS with her anyway....(as in not expecting an albino)

The other female "TREMPER" (as what I bought her as....) LOOKS like a giant Tremper to me.... Only produced 1 baby albino.... so that's why THAT female is in question now. the rest of the babies were NORMALS (mostly Hypo's actually)

I may be new to this forum, but this isn't my first fricken' rodeo...

There's probably less than 25% chance she's "het bell" I will find out next season. as in spring 2013.

ALSO due to an incubator malfunction at my friends place 4 years ago when that NORMAL was born, he had to put his "trempers" in his "bell" incubator... deli cup may have been mis labeled... who knows... I have never bred her to an albino, or HET albino before this year also.


To come on here and insult my ethics, before you properly learn how to read is quite comical to me... It's kinda like selling your car for gas money. don't you think? How else would I prove HIM out??? unless I bred him to BOTH albino strains???? REALLY think about that.

Cheers.

 

[Thorgecko707]

Yeah Thanks for your intellectual constipation .:main_thumbsup:

If you read my post I bred him to a NORMAL...... POSSIBLE het bell... Her father was a Poss het bell, and her mother was a NORMAL.

I was after NORMALS with her anyway....(as in not expecting an albino)

The other female "TREMPER" (as what I bought her as....) LOOKS like a giant Tremper to me.... Only produced 1 baby albino.... so that's why THAT female is in question now. the rest of the babies were NORMALS (mostly Hypo's actually)

I may be new to this forum, but this isn't my first fricken' rodeo...

There's probably less than 25% chance she's "het bell" I will find out next season. as in spring 2013.

ALSO due to an incubator malfunction at my friends place 4 years ago when that NORMAL was born, he had to put his "trempers" in his "bell" incubator... deli cup may have been mis labeled... who knows... I have never bred her to an albino, or HET albino before this year also.


To come on here and insult my ethics, before you properly learn how to read is quite comical to me... It's kinda like selling your car for gas money. don't you think? How else would I prove HIM out??? unless I bred him to BOTH albino strains???? REALLY think about that.

Cheers.

So if you bred a possible het bell to a Tremper and got a Tremper doesn't that mean it was het Tremper possible het bell? Or could the Tremper be het bell?

 

[StellarExotics]

Does he look tremper to you???? See where my dilemma is now?

cheers.

 

[StellarExotics]

love the violet on top of his eyes...

Also if he is indeed het bell ALSO, then it could potentially be a good thing as he is a "possible giant" as well...

He weighed 122g at the beginning of the season... and is about 10in long (never really measured him)

but i got him as an adult, and got him as a "het tremper" so if he's a giant than he is... I do not know this for sure...

but giant bells could be a very good thing...

 

[RampantReptiles]

Damn what a mess. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
This is why I stick with just one strain of albino

You should start a new thread.

 

[StellarExotics]

LOL Unfortunately his eyes didn't stay that red... they're more white, with dark red pupils ... the eyes only stayed that red for about a week.. and now are blue on top, just to add to the confusion as to "what's going on with this gecko!??!?"



to the OP.... I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to hijack..

 

[BrightReptiles]

love the violet on top of his eyes...

Also if he is indeed het bell ALSO, then it could potentially be a good thing as he is a "possible giant" as well...

He weighed 122g at the beginning of the season... and is about 10in long (never really measured him)

but i got him as an adult, and got him as a "het tremper" so if he's a giant than he is... I do not know this for sure...

but giant bells could be a very good thing...

giant bells that are her tremper are NOT a good thing. No one will buy them and you are just ruining the market for Leos by doing this and messing up the genetics out there. PLEASE if you do this, make sure they are all properly labeled as having genes from multiple albino strains and label them as pet only, making the buyers sign a waiver that they will not breed these animals.