Yes ma'am :main_yes: One of the things that really bothers me about leos today is how muddy some of them are in regards to their genes. I dont particularly like the 'Tremper het Raptor 50% het Abyssinian 33% het DB blah blah blah' lol. I like to know what my animals are and what they arent.
Proving Genetics
- Thread starter MiamiLeos
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Yes ma'am :main_yes: One of the things that really bothers me about leos today is how muddy some of them are in regards to their genes. I dont particularly like the 'Tremper het Raptor 50% het Abyssinian 33% het DB blah blah blah' lol. I like to know what my animals are and what they arent.
OhioGecko
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OhioGecko
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Are they proven Pure eclipses?
For the three I posted here their rate of being het Tremper is less than 25%, which is why I still consider these guys as 'project' animals. I got an Eclipse from Jon last year with the same rate of het Tremper and have since proven her to be pure. In a few months, these guys will all be tested 
OhioGecko
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I misunderstood your post from the begining, sorry. I have a couple of females from Jon to prove out also He has some great Eclipses.
Good luck with the project!
He has some great Eclipses. Good luck with the project!
Yea, his other projects are just as nice too. I've had a few people tell me that I dont need to worry bout proving them out because of the low rate het, but it's just one of my pet peeves and I really would much rather do it than not know. I've had a lot of luck with prooving out a female in the first half of the season, then letting her lay a few duds, then putting her with a new male and getting a few hatchlings of the desired result at the end of the season.
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OhioGecko
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Are you kidding me....... that is three people you should not take advice from again :main_laugh:
it doesnt necessarily work like that. most times in fact it doesn't work like that
if you are insinuating jon said not to test breed, wrong
No, not at all. Just a few local breeders that I know and chat with from time to time. They don't belong to the forum but I still would rather not state any names if that is alright. I really couldnt see Jon saying anything like that.
Over the years I've found this method to work very well for me. I don't use animals with similar traits or hets so when I prove one out, there is only one possible father and one possible mother. I think it might work so well for me because I live in southern FL. The leos here lay practically all year round, generally laying the same ammount of eggs, but they lay the clutches farther apart. I honestly think it's because we have such minor changes in temperature and light between seasons. They do tend to take a bit of a break around December though.
i live in texas. i know of the moderate temps but testing out one female with two males in one breeding season is about impossible.
Ok, well I've had great success with it. I'm just speaking from my experiences though.
thad can you split this thread so we can dicuss more about stuff like this instead of hijacking your thread?
i think this is interesting
how can you guarantee the genetics of the offspring from two different breedings in a season? females can retain sperm
also if this is the case you are muddying the waters even more which is contradictory to your earlier statement about not wanting to muddy the waters even more.
Here is an example for you...
Say I have an Rainwater female, poss het Murphys Patternless, and say that I want to prove that she is not het Murphys Patternless. I would take a Patty male and breed her to him when she starts to ovulate then remove him from her enclosure. Let's say she lays a clutch of eggs every 4-5 weeks after that. One clutch, two, three, four, all fertile. Clutch 5 and 6, all infertile eggs. By this time several of the first hatchlings would have hatched. If one was a Patty then obviously I would know she was het. If by this time the hatchlings from the first 2 or so clutches have hatched and none of them have been a Patty, I would go ahead and breed her to a RW. Now, if a gecko from the remaining first set of hatchlings comes out Patty after I have bred her for the second time, then the new babies would be 50% het Patty. If one of the new babies hatches and it is not a RW, then the provider for that baby was obviously the first male (although I have never had this happen, they can hold sperm but so rarely does it last this long). I set up my test breedings in ways like this so that I know without a shadow of a doubt who is the father of which baby. Is this clear for you? I am a bit irked with the way you have asserted your questions towards me in this thread. I dont see how you could have assumed that I was implying about Jon in the above post and this method that I use is not at all impossible. I also do not appreciate you insinuating that I am muddying the gene pool or being irresponsible with my animals. I take great care to produce high quality leopards with correct genetics.
Say I have an Rainwater female, poss het Murphys Patternless, and say that I want to prove that she is not het Murphys Patternless. I would take a Patty male and breed her to him when she starts to ovulate then remove him from her enclosure. Let's say she lays a clutch of eggs every 4-5 weeks after that. One clutch, two, three, four, all fertile. Clutch 5 and 6, all infertile eggs. By this time several of the first hatchlings would have hatched. If one was a Patty then obviously I would know she was het. If by this time the hatchlings from the first 2 or so clutches have hatched and none of them have been a Patty, I would go ahead and breed her to a RW. Now, if a gecko from the remaining first set of hatchlings comes out Patty after I have bred her for the second time, then the new babies would be 50% het Patty. If one of the new babies hatches and it is not a RW, then the provider for that baby was obviously the first male (although I have never had this happen, they can hold sperm but so rarely does it last this long). I set up my test breedings in ways like this so that I know without a shadow of a doubt who is the father of which baby. Is this clear for you? I am a bit irked with the way you have asserted your questions towards me in this thread. I dont see how you could have assumed that I was implying about Jon in the above post and this method that I use is not at all impossible. I also do not appreciate you insinuating that I am muddying the gene pool or being irresponsible with my animals. I take great care to produce high quality leopards with correct genetics.
honestly i think this is fulla poo AND how do you know the female is no longer holding sperm from the other male she could just be throwing infertiles since it is the end of the season. after they stop laying they stop laying. they are not ready to ovulate again and be bred again, well not until the next breeding season.
how many seasons have you been doing this?
i have respected your words until now. i question your experience on this and the validity and how you can guarantee the genetics of the animals you have. what if you are proving out two different strains of albino so within a season you breed said female to a tremper and an bell? what then?
how many seasons have you been doing this?
i have respected your words until now. i question your experience on this and the validity and how you can guarantee the genetics of the animals you have. what if you are proving out two different strains of albino so within a season you breed said female to a tremper and an bell? what then?
If you would have read what I wrote then you would know that I pair my animals so that I know positively who the father is. Pairing a RW with a RW will give all RWs. Pairing a RW with a Patty will give Normals, unless some come out Patty proving the female to be het Patty. This being such, one could theoretically breed the female to both males simultaneously and still know who the offspring came from. As far as your question about combining Albinos, no, I have not and will not breed a female to a Tremper then a Bell. A person would have to be an imbecile to do such a thing. I know the concept of genetics the genetics of my animals. This is simple math, x + y = z, replace letters with morphs. Math is not Philosophy, there are no 'what ifs' there simply what is and what is not and by proving out my animals in this manner I am perfectly capable of proving what is and what is not het.
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