Proving Genetics

[OhioGecko]

Bridgette, I breed one of my poss het males to a tremper female this year and she laid 12 eggs. I had one tremper baby and it was the eleventh egg. I personally think it is premature to prove a gecko on 4 or 6 eggs. Please don't take this as offensive, I don't mean to be.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Holy crap...and this is why I only buy my geckos from specific people that i know how they breed their geckos. Miami, you're way off base on attempting to prove something out.

Chris Martin just hatched an eclipse on the last clutch of eggs from a male and female i sold him. Both were from Redstripe x Bold stripe Bell. Neither het for eclipse. Needless to say the parents that produced his eclipse have a sibling that is a visual eclipse and prove to be Eclipse het Bell. (i proved it by hatching an eclipse and a radar from it)

So when attempting to say after 4 -6 eggs that you've proven anything out is a crock if you as me.

 

[MiamiLeos]

Alright, just a quick question then. In both these cases, say the final clutch wasn't laid. The 10 or what number have you preceding hatchlings show nothing to prove the mother/father het. So, would you consider the animal as pure then? Theoretically, you can breed a het animal to a homozygous animal a million times and never prove him/her out. So should we start proving animals out for 3, 4, 5 seasons now because of that scant possibility? I do not mean to object to your reasonings, I understand perfectly what you're saying. But if we're going to take this road then none of us can say any of our animals are 'pure' for there's always that sliver of a chance, even with test breeding season after season. Just as a side note as well, I have only ever stopped after 8 hatchlings once, never 4 never 6. I normally wait untill atleast 10, sometimes 12 hatchlings before I consider the animal proven.

 

[joshuabradley1]

I'm sitting here LMAO at the way you guys are going at it. It is an educational thread for beginner breeders like me though. Great job!

 

[OhioGecko]

Alright, just a quick question then. In both these cases, say the final clutch wasn't laid. The 10 or what number have you preceding hatchlings show nothing to prove the mother/father het. So, would you consider the animal as pure then? Theoretically, you can breed a het animal to a homozygous animal a million times and never prove him/her out. So should we start proving animals out for 3, 4, 5 seasons now because of that scant possibility? I do not mean to object to your reasonings, I understand perfectly what you're saying. But if we're going to take this road then none of us can say any of our animals are 'pure' for there's always that sliver of a chance, even with test breeding season after season. Just as a side note as well, I have only ever stopped after 8 hatchlings once, never 4 never 6. I normally wait untill atleast 10, sometimes 12 hatchlings before I consider the animal proven.

In your previous post you said "One clutch, two, three, four, all fertile. Clutch 5 and 6, all infertile eggs. By this time several of the first hatchlings would have hatched." That is eight babies to prove the genetics which is part of the reason you are being questioned."

No, I don't think 12 can prove out a gecko either. My pure male from Kristi I breed to several girls last Dec/Jan and then again in June/July to some others. He has around 80 babies to Tremper girls, I think it is safe to say he is not het. I also have 26 babies from Bell girls, our RADAR project. Fortunately you can breed males to multiple girls to prove them out, but it is different proving out females. IMO laying 4 clutches and then saying you proved the genetics is rushing to get in on a project which could come back to haunt you if your customers proved one of you babies to be het Tremper. I really don't think 10-12 eggs is enough to prove a female a non-het, I think a whole season is needed and if the girl only has 10-12 hatchlings, then a second season is needed.

I know of breeders that rushed into the RADAR project and used low ph Trempers in their project and sold RADARS that proved to be RAPTORS. I'm just saying take your time with the project and make sure you prove your girls out thourghly before moving on.

 

[robin]

Alright, just a quick question then. In both these cases, say the final clutch wasn't laid. The 10 or what number have you preceding hatchlings show nothing to prove the mother/father het. So, would you consider the animal as pure then? Theoretically, you can breed a het animal to a homozygous animal a million times and never prove him/her out. So should we start proving animals out for 3, 4, 5 seasons now because of that scant possibility? I do not mean to object to your reasonings, I understand perfectly what you're saying. But if we're going to take this road then none of us can say any of our animals are 'pure' for there's always that sliver of a chance, even with test breeding season after season. Just as a side note as well, I have only ever stopped after 8 hatchlings once, never 4 never 6. I normally wait untill atleast 10, sometimes 12 hatchlings before I consider the animal proven.

if the female only lays 4 -5 clutches that is not enough to prove. give them 8 + or so clutches and yeah. technically there is always going to be a "sliver" of a chance. but you are talking about mixing 2 males to one female in mid season, if your female happens to lay that many eggs.

btw if you have a female that only gives you only eight or ten (4-5 clutches) babies i would go one more year of proving the animal out

also i do not get where you talk about waiting for your gecko to lay a few sets of duds and then breed it to another male/ generally if they ar4e at the end of the season laying duds then they are finished. do you think that a male has to be put with a female each time she lays?

 

[Kristi23]

You definitely need to test breed each of them longer. One of my eclipse from Jon proved out to be het tremper this year. There's always a chance.

 

[MiamiLeos]

Alright guys you win. My brain is fried from work today and I really just dont have it in me to keep up with the battle. I'm going to take a nap.

 

[robin]

it's not a battle at all.

 

[MiamiLeos]

Mmk, well I suppose I will start re-proving out my stock then. Who knows, might find something new.

 

[OhioGecko]

You have some great geckos to work with, I can't wait to see what you produce!

 

[MiamiLeos]

Thanks Thad, I'll get right to work producing some nice stuff once I pick up what's left of my reputation here :hanged:

 

[OhioGecko]

LOL, we are all here to learn and share Bridgette.

 

[MiamiLeos]

I completely understand that, it's why I joined a forum. Doesnt really matter how long you do something, you still dont know it all.

 

[OhioGecko]

I completely understand that, it's why I joined a forum. Doesnt really matter how long you do something, you still dont know it all.

Preach it! You have to worry about the people who think they do know it all.