Sand Complication

[Jeanne]

Just because you see geckos on calcium sand that "look OK" does not mean that they are not at risk of developing impacted bowels. It means they are still alive, that's all.

Bravo Marcia!!!

But of coarse, just because you have been keeping, raising, and breeding Geckos longer than some of these people have been alive, doesn't mean you actually know what you are talking about.

You know, I know some people that drive drunk and nothing ever happens to them, so that must be safe....right!

 

[KelliH]

I don't recommend calci sand either. However, Reptisand or playsand is fine to use on adult leopard geckos, in my opinion. I used it for many years, and I know many others that did the same and the geckos had no problems.

 

[KiKi]

dont trust sand. only use reptile carpet better safe than sorry

 

[Ian S.]

Nathan, I got my BS from San Jose State University in Materials Science, and my MS from Berkeley in Organic Chemistry. I have been breeding geckos almost as long as you have been alive! I have conducted MANY experiments with Calcium Carbonate and it's solubility properties when 'dissolved' in acid AND base. Here is a case study:

"I took 1g samples of calcium carbonate 'sand' and tried to dissolve them in varying concentrations of base and acid. I understand that a reptile's ability to digest food depends on many factors including temperature, but this test was just designed to give me an idea of what would happen. A lizard's stomach is an acid about pH 3 at a high concentration. Their intestines are basic at a high concentration about pH 9. In the lab I used 1M and 2M Hydrochloric Acid pH 1, tap and deionized water pH 7, and 1M and 2M Sodium Hydroxide pH 14. I added 1g of substrate to 10 mls solution. The samples were then set in a 70°F constant temperature room for 4 days. I then carefully removed the liquid and dried it. I recorded the weight of the remaining material (what had been dissolved in the solution).

Table 1
Concentration/ pH/ % absorbed
2 M HCl 1 17.47%
2 M HCl 1 19.31%
1 M HCl 1 12.29%
1 M HCl 1 18.79%
Tap water 7 3.28%
Tap water 7 2.29%
Deionized water 7 3.14%
Deionized water 7 2.92%
1 M NaOH 14 14.65%
1 M NaOH 14 12.71%
2 M NaOH 14 36.22%

Overall, the study showed that the calcium carbonate substrates do not dissolve very well in any of the solutions that I made. The best I got was 36% with the 2M basic solution. Still, that is only 1/3rd of what actually has been ingested by the animal that is easily able to pass through the system. For me, that was not good enough. These particles are about 2X larger than normal sand, which has also been known to cause impactions under certain conditions.

When I continued my investigation a little further to see if anyone else had encountered problems with these substrates, I found that most breeders do not use these materials. According to Dr. Frederic L. Frye, PH.D, DVM. etc., "Calcium sand acts as an antacid which neutralizes stomach acids, adversely effecting digestion".

You are DEAD wrong about using calci-sand for your leopard geckos.

:deal2: :deal2:
Court is adjourned defense wins:smash:
Calci sand is sentance yet again to remain sealed tightly in the raunchy bags there packaged in.:smash: :thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Reptisand or playsand is fine to use on adult leopard geckos, in my opinion. I used it for many years, and I know many others that did the same and the geckos had no problems.

Agreed. I believe that non-silica, polished sand is OK for ADULT leopard geckos... as long as they have all the proper other environmental and health conditions such as temps and thermal gradients, humidity considerations, diet and supplementation, etc., to ensure their GI systems are functioning properly.

My argument is in regard to "dissolvable" granulated calcium sand.

 

[Nastynotch]

Agreed. I believe that non-silica, polished sand is OK for ADULT leopard geckos... as long as they have all the proper other environmental and health conditions such as temps and thermal gradients, humidity considerations, diet and supplementation, etc., to ensure their GI systems are functioning properly.

My argument is in regard to "dissolvable" granulated calcium sand.

But isnt the non-silica play sand worse? isnt it hydrophilic npolar and will just bind with anything and everything else it passes while digested. not to mention that since its tetriary and wont be dissolved by any acid or base you throw at it (on the PH scale). Since its just 'playsand' who knows what else is in there with it. I think the people who package up playsand have no idea its about to be set with a gecko. The people who make cal-sand atleast have a proper figure in their minds, knowing its about to be used with some sort of herp.

Lol, this is a never ending battle. I could break out the chem. bio. and ES books and argue about the molecular layout of this crap, just to argue endlessly.

With any loose sub. your taking a risk of impaction. We always fight about the rates and percentages of the risk, which will probably never be decided.
Theres a chance that ill walk across the street to get the mail and get hit by a car. But does that stop me from getting the mail? the same idea applys with setting up our habbitats for our geckos.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Since its just 'playsand' who knows what else is in there with it.

That's why you clean it.

With any loose sub. your taking a risk of impaction.

That's one of the main reasons not too many people use loose substrate. Why risk it, when you don't have to.

 

[KelliH]

What about the substrate in their nest boxes? Hmmmm...

 

[BalloonzForU]

What about the substrate in their nest boxes? Hmmmm...

I use paper towels in all hatchlings, males and non breeding females, for breeding females I use sphagnum moss, in moist hides/layboxes.

 

[marula]

i put my gigi (an adult blizzard male) in the sand (no calium)...and he got an impaction! fortunatly i see thet in time and now he have his nice and green reptil carpet again!!...i can't immagin to found him death...

 

[Led Zep]

The sand that I use says, "All natural substrate for desert dwelling reptiles. Contains no added dyes or chemicals", so what about this stuff, is this ok to use on my 9 inch leopard gecko? This kind of sand is really fine too, but I mean like all of the other substrates just look so ugly, you have to admit sand looks way better.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What about the substrate in their nest boxes? Hmmmm...

LOL again, Kelli!!! I think most of us have seen the little 'gold-nugget' poops that vermiculite can cause!

 

[Val]

This kind of sand is really fine too, but I mean like all of the other substrates just look so ugly, you have to admit sand looks way better.

I personally think sand looks bad in tanks. It just makes things look 'dusty' and the leopard geckos don't look as nice, in my opinion. Tanks with slate tiles as a substrate look the nicest to me, and if we had any for show that's what we'd be using!

 

[KiKi]

sand is very bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jeanne]

I personally think sand looks bad in tanks. It just makes things look 'dusty' and the leopard geckos don't look as nice, in my opinion. Tanks with slate tiles as a substrate look the nicest to me, and if we had any for show that's what we'd be using!

I agree, I would love to have a tank set up with tile flooring, etc. Like the one Shanti is making! Major Thumbsup to that set-up!

 

[Project Reef]

I think Kiki has a secret crush on sand. :main_rolleyes: