Sand

[fl_orchidslave]

The following are some links to information on sand impaction in leopard geckos. Some of the photos are GRAPHIC. I really like this quote from one of them:


http://www.herpcenter.com/leopard-gecko-sand-impaction-xrays.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/Impaction
http://www.petkareclinic.com/cases_rocky.htm

Marcia, can you post this information in the anatomy section for future reference? That last case was really something!

 

[robin]

The following are some links to information on sand impaction in leopard geckos. Some of the photos are GRAPHIC. I really like this quote from one of them:


http://www.herpcenter.com/leopard-gecko-sand-impaction-xrays.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/Impaction
http://www.petkareclinic.com/cases_rocky.htm

have you ever found any true scientific data or personal experience on using a particulate substrate?

 

[acharpenter]

Geeks happiness is 2nd most important to me - 1st is his health

I would love to use a particle substrate of some sort but it’s just not worth the risk to me.

For aesthetic purposes, I plan to build a faux sand substrate. Something built out of foam sections (so they are easy to remove and clean) that is colored like sand and has a small amount of crushed walnut shell affixed to the surface.

Will look natural, have natural hills and crevices and still not give me the anxiety of worrying about Geek getting impacted.

Just my 2 cents

 

[sausage]

it dose make me laugh that its all very much ooooh sands the bad guy! it impacts your gecko! well what about all the other things that cause impaction or contribute to it like shells and husks of feeder insects for example but every one dosnt switch to feeding their leos chicken baby food (chicken purely for example).
paper towles still can cause impaction as they can and some times do eat bits when catching food.
decorations in cages such as silk or plastic plants do again somtimes get eaten while hunting yet no one mentions them when it comes to impaction.
other geckos such as cresties are cept on bases that have much larger pieces that cause terrible impaction but people would never consider housing a crestie on paper towles.

 

[T-ReXx]

it dose make me laugh that its all very much ooooh sands the bad guy! it impacts your gecko! well what about all the other things that cause impaction or contribute to it like shells and husks of feeder insects for example but every one dosnt switch to feeding their leos chicken baby food (chicken purely for example).
paper towles still can cause impaction as they can and some times do eat bits when catching food.
decorations in cages such as silk or plastic plants do again somtimes get eaten while hunting yet no one mentions them when it comes to impaction.
other geckos such as cresties are cept on bases that have much larger pieces that cause terrible impaction but people would never consider housing a crestie on paper towles.

You might want to do a little research before making statements...

Show me a documented case of a leopard gecko impacted by properly sized and gut loaded prey items of the right species. There has never been a case of a healthly leopard gecko fed correctly impacted by cricket or mealworm exoskeletons; insects are what they are designed to eat. Sand they are not designed to eat.

If you have decorations in your cage that can be ingested easily they should not be in the cage.

MOST breeders keep crested geckos on paper towels, myself included. It's quite safe for them and allows one to use a nest box to avoid digging up the entire cage to find eggs.

 

[T-ReXx]

have you ever found any true scientific data or personal experience on using a particulate substrate?

I can give you two directly observed examples of sand based impactions in leopard geckos. Both were cases I observed while working at an exotics specialist vet hospital.

Case A was an adult female kept on play sand for a little over 3 years. Other aspects of husbandry were on par. The animal was of good weight and body condition. It hadn't defecated in a week and was off food. Upon X-rays, there was a large blockage in the upper intestines. Surgery was done and a chunk of sand about the size of a marble was removed. Unfortunately the animal didn't recover well from the trauma and stress of surgery and died.

Case B was a juvenile approximately 6 months old. Inexperienced keeper, kept the animal on Calcisand. It had been observed eating the sand directly. Husbandry in this case was a bit off so sand impaction cannot necessarily be noted as the only smoking gun. The animal had been off food for two weeks and had not defecated in 3. X-rays revealed a blockage in the lower intestine. The owner decided to euthanize, and upon necropsy a relatively large blockage of sand particles was discovered.

I'm not saying it is totally impossible to keep leopard geckos on a particulate substrate. If certain measures are taken and with regular and careful observation the potential for impaction can be greatly reduced. BUT it cannot be removed as long as the animal has access to the substrate. It's a matter of risk VS reward. Personally, I wouldn't keep a species known to actively consume substrate on occasion on a sand substrate simply because the risk to the animal's health outweighs the debatable gains involved. And as already noted leopard geckos do not come from a Saharan desert environment with endless dunes. Sandy soil and rocky habitat is more along the lines of the natural environment. And I am also a firm believer that there is a huge difference between captive environments and the wild. Captive animals have a much restricted territory and are forced to be in contact with whatever their keeper chooses to expose them to. They may adapt yes but they also may not. Nature cannot be duplicated in terraria, only emulated. Part of that emulation also I feel involves maintaining as safe an environment as possible. Not every keeper feels that way, it's a difference of opinion. There are ways to provide a variably textured substrate without using one that is particulate; tiling, slate pieces, false carved foam inserts, packed sandy earth with an overlaying of slate tiles to reduce surface exposure, etc.

The basic point is in order to decide whether or not to utilize a particulate substrate one must examine in detail one's experience and abilities as a reptile keeper as well as the weight of the pros VS the cons. This debate can go on forever and probably will. But one point I would like to stress is that a particulate substrate ALWAYS carries the chance of impaction. It's a fact. Just as giving your dog a chew toy also risks a foreign body, the dog may or may not eat the toy but the potential is still there. We can take steps to REDUCE the risks involved, but we cannot REMOVE them.

 

[robin]

ted, was it play sand or calci-sand (or the likes)?

 

[Tony C]

ted, was it play sand or calci-sand (or the likes)?

Case A was an adult female kept on play sand

Case B was a juvenile approximately 6 months old. Inexperienced keeper, kept the animal on Calcisand.

 

[soccerdad]

MOST breeders keep crested geckos on paper towels, myself included. It's quite safe for them and allows one to use a nest box to avoid digging up the entire cage to find eggs.

agreed most keepers not just breeders use paper towels to have them on anything else is a minority ..... I used to keep my Leo on Tile and he was perfectly happy no risk of impaction and easier to clean

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

have you ever found any true scientific data or personal experience on using a particulate substrate?

Well, I think the articles and photos of surgery is true scientific data, and accurate accounts from my vet, Dr. Kenneth Harkewicz (President of the ARAV). I also have some lab study data on the solubility of Calci-Sand. As far as personal experience with sand impaction... I have none because I have never used it as a substrate for my leopard geckos. After years of hearing horror stories, seeing published data, photos, and recommendations from other breeders and vets about the dangers of keeping leos on sand, taking that risk was simply not worth the health and lives of my geckos.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I also have some lab study data on the solubility of Calci-Sand.

What solubility of Calci-Sand?

BwahahahahahaHAHA!

... it's a very sad joke. Tragic even, considering.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

other geckos such as cresties are cept on bases that have much larger pieces that cause terrible impaction but people would never consider housing a crestie on paper towles.

Rhacs are arboreal geckos, so I doubt you would find them in the wild on sand. Most of the Rhac breeders I know DO keep paper towel in the bottom of their gecko's enclosures.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What solubility of Calci-Sand?

BwahahahahahaHAHA!

... it's a very sad joke. Tragic even, considering.

HA! You must have seen those studies, too! I should have said, "lack of solubility". At best, calci-sand agglutenates. Especially in the short GI tract of carnivorous and insectivorous reptiles.

 

[soccerdad]

Rhacs are arboreal geckos, so I doubt you would find them in the wild on sand. Most of the Rhac breeders I know DO keep paper towel in the bottom of their gecko's enclosures.

and thats not to mention that every rhac owner I know who doesnt use paper towels ... moves the gecko to a seperate container when it comes to feeding dusted crickets or other bugs