Shar-pei Leopardgeckos

[PacHerp]

My first Raptor from my giant Aptor females emerged like this--she's doing great, but really should be a pet only...not a trait we should try to amplify in my opinion

I agree :main_yes:

 

[Halley]

I've produced a few of these from the (r)aptor project, and I have one Tremper Blazing that also has this "shar-pei" look. My first Raptor from my giant Aptor females emerged like this--she's doing great, but really should be a pet only...not a trait we should try to amplify in my opinion

why? Everybody who has produced them said they have no problem getting around. They look neat, so why not?

 

[DAWNoftheLEO]

I hatched a RAPTOR last year that had too much skin around her neck like that.

 

[spykerherps]

I personally don't agree with breeding for it I don't like the look . But hay if people like it and it doesn't affect the gecko or the gecko is healthy otherwise besides excess skin people are going to breed for it . that is how the Shar-pei was created and the dachshund and great dane and all other "pure " breed dogs we have today.

But like pure bred dogs and their features breeding for those trates you also get underlying things in the breed ie bad skin, weak hips, cancers. etc.

twenty years from now we may have a dachshund leo, small leo with short legs and the great dane leo which we kind of already have super giants but bred for long limbs

some morphs know have longer snouts then others and some with really short ones. everyone has their preferences. I personally like the normal natural shape of the leopard with a nice super tang.

 

[Gazz]

I personally don't agree with breeding for it I don't like the look . But hay if people like it and it doesn't affect the gecko or the gecko is healthy otherwise besides excess skin people are going to breed for it . that is how the Shar-pei was created and the dachshund and great dane and all other "pure " breed dogs we have today.

But like pure bred dogs and their features breeding for those trates you also get underlying things in the breed ie bad skin, weak hips, cancers. etc.

twenty years from now we may have a dachshund leo, small leo with short legs and the great dane leo which we kind of already have super giants but bred for long limbs

some morphs know have longer snouts then others and some with really short ones. everyone has their preferences. I personally like the normal natural shape of the leopard with a nice super tang.

Mother nature been guine pigging this skin type also filesnake/Elephant trunk snake it's payed of for her.File snakes feel really wired if you hold a typical snake like a boa or python'etc.then hold them.I think there are some sea snake species with skin like it also.So i assume this is beneficial if you send a lot of time in water.maybe helps them swim better of grip fish better'etc.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/2460595701_154d2b7a7e_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2461429106_fe8455e067.jpg?v=0

http://kamikazereptile.com/DSCF0002.jpg

At worsed i think they'll just be leo's that look like yoda or OAP leo's.

 

[Sandra]

I love it when touching my gecko's chins the skin moves and wrinkles So I think I would enjoy having one of those 'shar-pei' geckos.

 

[Griesi]

I love it when touching my gecko's chins the skin moves and wrinkles

I hope you don`t handle and knead them too much

As those wrinkled geckos show of that often, I don`t realy believe that it is a genetic trait but maybe more a sign of some deficiencies of the mother or problems during breeding season. Anyway, I don`t know it and will do a testbreeding with the animals I have.
The big Raptor male I have is in his second year and he doesn`t show any problems with his too much skin around him. I got him from Steve Sykes btw. I hadn`t seen this skinthing in the picture that showed him on Steve`s website.

Some people posted, that they also have leopardgeckos like that. Anyone pictures available?

 

[AjaxTrippy]

i have a high yellow with the extra skin too, i call her wrinklehead

 

[Ian S.]

I've also hatched out a few wrinkly leos as well. They are not wrinkly from dehydration.

 

[RepBex]

lets have pics of all these geckos see what it looks like

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

I also have a gecko with this kind of loose skin, but I will not use him for breeding..
I really like the diversity of leopard geckos, but for me there is an invisible border what is ethical in my opinion and whats not.

Don't get me wrong: I think it would be really interesting and useful if Karsten could do a testbreeding for checking if this is genetic, so we all can learn from it and maybe avoid to use such animals as Breeders in future..

But I do not think that such a "trait" should be breed in large numbers, and as an official mutation for follwing reason:

I would be worried in which direction this "mutation" (if it is a genetic one) would lead us in future- maybe to a gecko that steps on his skin everytime we tries to walk..? Such animals would have great problems to hunt, or even to walk. With time, he would definitely not be able to show his natural behaviour as a hunter and a walker. Is this really what you want to see on a beloved pet?

Also, the comparison with giants is not correct IMO: Giant Geckos share the same anatomy as all other leopardgeckos-they are just larger. Giants can easily show all their natural spectrum, but I doubt that the "loose skin" ones, or geckos with shorter legs can too after a few generations..

I can only repeat that I deeply appreceate Karstens post as a very important one (and your geckos are very cute ones btw ). And I think that with this testing he could bring us some new, important information. But we should think twice before making the same mistakes with geckos some people already have made with other species: To "create" living animals that can barely live without troubles or pain..

I truly believe that Nature & Evolution have their reason why the anatomy of our leopardgeckos looks the way it does today and has not changed much in the past million years.

Remember: Our leopard Geckos have no other choice- WE select their breeding partners, so WE are responsible for their well-being and for their future in captivity..

just my 2 cents, and please excuse my bad english ..

/Rebecca

 

[Franks_Geckos]

I hatched a Raptor that has some extra skin around the neck as well, but not to the degree shown in those photos. Seems that quite a few of these loose skin Leos (Shar-Pei...lol) were from Raptor projects or were actually Raptors and extra skin was prevalent in the neck region. Interesting. I wonder if anyone else sees this occurring?

 

[Ian S.]

fur coat? or in this case scale coat...
I won't be breeding mine

 

[Griesi]

I`m surprised that someone brought this older post up again- but it´s good, because I have some news:

After starting this thread I had a leopard gecko dying shortly before it hatched. It looked like this:
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=21421&highlight=bubble

I think, that this is the reason for the loose skin. Most if not all wrinkly geckos I have seen seem to have the extra skin mainly in the throat and head area. I believe that there is a dysfunction during the end of embryogenesis. What ever causes this bubble at the throat, it overexpands the skin and leads to the extra skin.

Having this thesis in mind, there should be no worries about amplifying this to the extend Rebecca mentioned in her post. But it still doesn`t explain if it has a genetical reason or if it`s just a sign for malnutrition/supplementation of the mothers diet or something that happens during the incubation.
Also have a look at this:
http://www.geckoforums.net/showpost.php?p=206971&postcount=7

The animals don`t seem to have any problem with it- so I don`t have either

 

[gage]

thats hilarious

 

[KelliH]

I don't think it's genetic, I think it's something to due with incubation and/or supplementation of the adults. I certainly would not encourage a breeding program with these geckos, but to each his own I suppose.

 

[Gregg M]

Any leopard gecko natural selection is nonexistent. Saying leos should remain natural is unrealistic... Our entire captive stock is the result of crossbreeding different subspecies, inbreeding, and selectively breeding for what we want to see not for what nature intended them to be...

Has anyone ever thought that some of these oddities might be subspecies specific and only pop up once in a while because of the concoction of genetics in our captive leos???

There can be so many differnt answers to things like this. Its cool to see different opinions on the subject...