Stripe X Stripe... what do you get?

[ForTozs]

I'm trying to wrap my head around stripe genetics. If everybody could share the results of their jungle/stripe/reverse stripe/patternless stripe crosses in one place it might help us wrap our minds around it. I'll start with my only stripe cross offspring this year...

(bold) stripe X patternless stripe = jungle baby (I might need to post pic for confirmation on this)

What dumbfounds me the most is that people get normals after crossing two stripes. I want to get an idea about how often this happens. As discussed here before, there may be two different stripe genes out there...but this might be too convenient of an explanation. For the people with "recessive" stripes... Do your "het stripes" appear totally normal or are they showing jungle/aberrant influences?

All crosses involving jungle/stripe crosses are welcome.

 

[TokayKeeper]

This is what I got...

But I only worked with one individual's line at the time. And long before the stripes remained defined as adults, aka bold stripes.

First 2 pics..male then female, rest are their offspring. Breeders were from Tremper. Photos from 2000 and 2002.

Check my eggs incubating for a current rainwater X stripe pairing. All offspring from that pairing are normal in hatchling pattern, but do have reduced spotting. No hatchlings from them yet this year and I only have 2 left from last year.

 

[ForTozs]

Thanks! That's exactly what I'm looking for..even better that they come from the same pairing. Keep them coming guys!

 

[Taquiq]

Genetically speaking, Stripe x Stripe will give you Jungle's and Stripe's.

 

[acpart]

I'd have to check my data, but I can tell you that the first year I worked with stripes I bred banded to stripe (A) and got 10 stripes and 10 bandeds. The next year I bred the same banded gecko to another stripe (B) which was related to the original female and I think I got less than 50% stripes. The same banded male is now bred to a snow stripe (C) who is the daughter of B and so far the first 2 offspring are stripes. The Hypo Mack snow (banded) that fathered this year's snow stripe was bred to B last year and produced 9 stripes, 1 jungle and 4 banded babies.

Aliza

 

[TokayKeeper]

Genetically speaking, Stripe x Stripe will give you Jungle's and Stripe's.

With jungle supposedly dominant over stripe, stripe x stripe should yield all striped. This is exactly what it has done for me, but I only had Ron Tremper's line back then. I have a couple others to play with either later next year (edit: should have read this year) or next season plus the double hets I'm producing.

Now, if doing jungle x stripe, then yeah, you should get a mix and that's what I'll be testing with one of my other stripe lines.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

It's been my experience with bold stripes is that patternless stripes will interfere with the 'bold', making the offspring jungles and stripes, but not necessarily BOLD stripes.

 

[ajveachster]

I do know last year we produced one banded baby from a red stripe het radar X red stripe het radar pairing, the other 4 were all striped to some degree.

 

[ForTozs]

See I am a little skeptical of jungle being dominant over stripe myself. By what's been posted so far and some other posts I've looked at, it seems that stripes are far more frequent than jungles from a lot of pattern crosses, which would lead me to believe jungle is not dominant over stripe.

 

[TokayKeeper]

Mmmm... I think you see that frequency because there seems to be more desire for stripes over jungles. Thus there is a greater occurrence of the trait. It's like the ray hine line of carrot-tails. Ray was the originator, via what appears to be a codominant hypo trait. You rarely see the classic versions now, where they had a patternless body, spotted head and tail. Instead you see the "super" form which is the super hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy, which was more sought after.

The result of this breeding is the virtual disappearance of once common,classic base morphs.

 

[ForTozs]

I see your point, and agree, but... If crossing 2 stripes can give jungles, it is definitely not simple recessive, on the other hand, if crossing two jungles gives a stripe, jungle is not simple recessive.

 

[acpart]

There's also a gray area where some people would call the pattern a stripe and some a jungle, so it's hard to be sure.

Aliza

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Stripes... especially Bold Stripes, are not simple recessive. Never have been, never will be.

 

[LZRDGRL]

I'm breeding for Reverse Stripes this season. I'm pairing just one male (Lester; Tremper Albino with two very light stripes at the sides) with different striped females (Bonnie, Adonai, Meringue, Corinne) and one non-stripe (jungle) female (Penny Lane).

Here are all his 19 babies so far, born since January 2011. He had 1 solid orange Tremper, 2 Raptors, 1 circled Tremper, 4 Jungles, and 11 Stripes/Reverse Stripes (depending on how you define the difference between stripe and jungle!):

Solace (from non-striped female), an almost uniform orange gecko now:

Lindy (from non-striped female), my favorite:

Solstice (from non-striped female):

Cindy (from non-striped female):

Mary (from striped female; Meringue):

Keri (Mary's clutch mate):

Natasha (Raptor; from striped female, Meringue):

Nadeshda (Natasha's clutch mate, a jungle):

Miracle (from striped female; Corinne):

Mirage (Miracle's clutch mate):

Lys (from striped female, Meringue):

Lisette (Lys' clutchmate):

Baylee (from striped female, Corinne):

Belinda, a jungle, clutch mate to Baylee:

Cora, from striped female (Corinne):

Nora, Cora's clutch mate, a jungle:

Aurelia (from striped female, Bonnie):

Adi, a Raptor (from striped female Emerine, Adonai):

Ari, a jungle, Adi's clutch mate:

I've read somewhere there is no "het Reverse Stripe" (???). But whenever I pair this male with a striped female, I get striped babies and very few jungles. If I pair him with non-striped females, I get some jungly/stripey babies, some solid orange colored ones, and some with white/orange/yellow circles. So the genetics for stripe must definitely be in the male, too.

So far, all his babies from striped females are striped; some are more jungle than stripe, because one of their stripes is a little interrupted. There were no banded hatchlings so far, and just two patternless Raptors.

Please post your experiences/photos regarding Reverse Stripes, not just Bold Stripes!

Thanks,

Chrissy

 

[robin]

stripe and jungle i believe is the same gene. they are recessive. i can go and make het stripes breed those together and get stripes and jungle. the boldness and color are what is line bred.

my theory is that even thought it (stripe jungle) is recessive that it goes through stages. starting out with jungles, then stripes and then sorta a form of "super jungle" i think this "super jungle" is they key to unlocking the way to producing reversed stripes on a consistent basis.

all of this is based on my experience and what i have seen. it is just my theory but lets take for instance raptors and aptors, you do not see many stripe aptos or raptors, mostly jungles and reversed stripes. reversed stripes are common when working with the raptor gene, including hets. i think the many of the jungle (of raptor genes) we see are "super jungles". i think breeding these will get reversed stripes (hopefully one day on a purposely and consistent basis) however this is generations of work and data.

ahh i am just rambling here anyhow that is my opinion and some of my theories on the whole thing.

 

[LZRDGRL]

That was a very useful post, Robin! I have to admit that all my male breeders who have stripes and produce stripes and jungles are either het Raptor or non-albino Eclipse!

My non-albino Reverse Stripes come from two Eclipse males (Andiamo and Thorben) bred to exclusively non-striped (banded) Snow and Normal females. Here is their offspring that has jungle pattern or stripes (they had 50% of those, and 50% of Normal/Snow (banded) offspring which I won't post here):

Sunita

Katrin

Bianka

Hauke

Frauke

Lolita

Natalya

Sophia

Gracia

Magdalena

Granada

I'm making family trees to keep track of data, such as how many Broken Reverse Stripes, Reverse Stripes, and Jungles I get.

So if I breed those jungly/broken reverse-striped females back to one of the fathers, I should theoretically get more striped offspring than now (about 50%), right? And if I breed back the perfectly striped females to one of the fathers, would that create "super jungles"???

Chrissy

 

[robin]

So if I breed those jungly/broken reverse-striped females back to one of the fathers, I should theoretically get more striped offspring than now (about 50%), right? And if I breed back the perfectly striped females to one of the fathers, would that create "super jungles"???

Chrissy

i do not think it is quite that easy. to know for sure you would have to start from scratch. i wouldn't start with the raptor or aptor gene but a bold stripe from non raptor aptor bloodlines. well from a scientific stance you would want to start from scratch. but you could try, i mean it wont hurt to try for it. just stick to your project on trying to figure it out. like i said it's just a theory, i could be way off.

 

[ForTozs]

Great posts guys! LZRDGRL, I would love to see the family tree when you get finished.

 

[ForTozs]

Just thought I'd bring this back up and see if anyone has any new results from the season. So far I find the results very interesting.

 

[acpart]

My banded Tremper albino male this season, who has a history of producing stripes when bred to a stripe was bred this season to a Mack snow stripe and a snow blizzard. Nearly all the offspring of the snow stripe were either stripe or jungle (I'd have to check to see the exact percentages) and some of the blizzard's offspring were aberrant with one qualifying as a jungle.

Aliza