The new sweet eye candy from A&M's

[Jeremy Letkey]

Very coool!!

Personally though... I want to see a super nova.

 

[Gazz]

Stunning albino eclipse enigma :main_thumbsup: .

 

[Baysidegeckos]

O yea, is it TS for male or female?

 

[Albey]

First off I would like to congratulate you guys on a major first. That is an incredible animal to have in your arsenal. :main_thumbsup:

Ok here goes, Matt, please don’t think I am questioning what you and Alberto have produced but how do you know that it is an Enigma? From the pictures you posted it looks like a newborn regular Raptor. I don’t see any of the Enigma funkiness or even a single Enigma spot on it. I have not personally produced enough Enigmas to know if every Enigma has the spots but all of the ones I have hatched have them even the Albinos. Are you judging it by the eye coloration alone? Is there something else that just screams Enigma when you see it? Please take into consideration that I realize a picture is not going to show what you can see in person.

Once again I would like to emphasize I am not questioning what you have produced but I do want to know what to look for in my own hatchlings so I can determine if they are Enigmas or not. This is going to be even more important when more of the crosses start being produced.:main_robin:

In the name of "Leopard Gecko Science" I look forward to hearing back from you. :main_laugh::main_yes::main_laugh::main_yes:

 

[SaSobek]

For the name of "Leopard Gecko Science"

well i will be glad to explain why i know its an enigma. and actualy the more i look at this thing it might even be a snow raptor enigma.
ok first pic is a bit blury but you can actualy see some things better

first off in this pic you can see the Raptor/eclipse nose its like a whiteing that covers the nose look at my pic by my name to see it on an eclipse. all so you can see the spot alittle higher up that is the normal enigma spot on the nose. also the blueish crown that alot of enigmas have. next you have to look at the body pattern, all though its not the patternless raptor body patteren it has the "enigma pattern" wich is usualy the big circle back on the back by the front arms and the 2 smaller spots by the back legs. also a big sign that i have seen is the lack of color on the tail
View attachment 11091
ok next pic is the nova with an albino enigma again this enigma has the blueish crown on the head different look to the body pattern. even though its not the same patteren and the colorless tall. and see how muted the color is on the Raptor enigma. that makes me think it might be a snow but we will see

View attachment 11092
this is a good pic to see the last to next to a regular albino.
if you notice the enigmas also have a more translucent body to them where there is no color

View attachment 11093
this is a pic with my enigma mack snow you can see the enigma spot on the nose much betterits the black spot between the eyes and nose there is color comeing in on the tail. and more of the circle back with the two smaller circles further down

View attachment 11094
here is another shot of the eye showing the raptor the reason i might think that it is a snow is the muted color that it has.
View attachment 11095

i hope this helps out its hard to explain the enigma but they just look different then what you would think a normal animal will look like. the same is true with the blizard enigma and the blazing enigma they are not just a white animal they have a weird color and pattern. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Matt, that was a most excellent post. Very helpful and insightful. It is obviously very difficult when you are the first to produce something new, to be sure what you have. There is nothing else to compare it to. You, Alberto and many others will be in uncharted waters this season. More so than any other before. I think that by judging it next to some of the other animals that you have all ready produced was a good start.


After this post, I too think that you MAY have a Mack Raptor Enigma on your hands. I think that only way to be 100% certain, will be to breed him. (good luck with the wait LOL)

 

[A&M Gecko]

Ok here goes, Matt, please don’t think I am questioning what you and Alberto have produced but how do you know that it is an Enigma? From the pictures you posted it looks like a newborn regular Raptor. I don’t see any of the Enigma funkiness or even a single Enigma spot on it. I have not personally produced enough Enigmas to know if every Enigma has the spots but all of the ones I have hatched have them even the Albinos. Are you judging it by the eye coloration alone? Is there something else that just screams Enigma when you see it? Please take into consideration that I realize a picture is not going to show what you can see in person.

Albey, one of the main reason why we are sure is enigma is because of the fading pattern the bands have and the pattern on the head, it may be not as clear from the PICS and is understandable that is questionable. There is no question for us that this is one, every each enigma albino we have hatched as of now we could recognize from birth because of their pattern which is like the non albino form, you see it fading at the edge more and more and the pattern on the head in different then normal. I honestly have hatched a good number of enigmas now and the body was always looking like a fading away of the pattern, like with the banded, a fading bands, the jungles, with fading jungle pattern, we did not hatch a stripe yet, we will see what that one looks like, but even if the animal was spotty like you sayd it was always a fading edge spots. In any case, we did not mistake yet 1 enigma with a normal hatchlings of any kinds and we are very confident of our skills in doing so at this point or we would have never made a claim this big on a world wide forum.
Alberto

 

[Albey]

Alberto and Matt, I would like to thank both you guy’s for posting very thorough explanations. I have learned a lot from both of your posts. As I have already stated I do not have that much experience with the Enigmas them being as new as they are so I am still learning what to look for. Your insightful explanations do a great job. Once again I would like to reiterate that I was not questioning what you have produced just trying to understand it for the good of â€Leopard Gecko Scienceâ€

Major Congrats to both of you.

 

[dprince]

Albey, I very much appreciate that you asked the question, and Matt and Alberto, thanks for the informative responses. Like Jeremy said, a lot of us working with enigmas are in uncharted territory, so any help we can get is MUCH appreciated. :main_yes:

 

[bro paul]

Very nice guys! That is a beautiful gecko, no doubt
It'll be great when more hatch so that you can make sure if its a snow or not. Enjoy watching that one grow! I'm envious...:main_thumbsup:

 

[GeckoStud]

Coolness, very nice name too!

 

[lizzardguy83]

thats one amazing animal!!!

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Thanks for posting more pics, "we" can see the pattern much better in these ones. Looks like an Enigma to me.:main_yes:

I agree if that is a Snow it will not be possible to know 100%, until proven. Looks like it could be, but there is alot more color than you`de expect.

Meant in the best way possible, I hope that one is not a Mack. I just mean it would be "nicer"(IMO) if the Snow version was more white. Know what I mean?

 

[Gazz]

Introducing the worlds first NOVA (Enigma raptor)

It's possible somone got there before you but i'm not 100% on how it turn out.IT come from a enigma het tremper albino & eclipse X patternless stripe het tremper albino & eclipse.But i don't know if the eyes turned out eclipse on it or not.

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=13804

 

[paulnj]

Mike's isn't eclipse eyed, so unless someone is holding back on announcing one, this is indeed the first (MS?) eclipse eyed tremper enigma (NOVA).

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What a remarkable little gecko! Congratulations!!!

 

[miamimike]

The eyes on my enigma tremper look to be non-eclipse eyes.....HUGE congrats to Matt and Alberto on that AWESOME animal!!!!....those guys work hard to stay out front and they definetly deserve hatching these incredible animals and all the credit that goes along with it....COOL COOL animal guys!!!!

 

[SaSobek]

yea mike ( a good friend of mine) said that his was not an (enigma raptor) but im sure he will hatch one this year :main_thumbsup:

Gazz
his male is an Enigma het RAPTOR and it is a het RAPTOR, because that was what the dad was , it was a RAPTOR. so none of this het eclipse het albino stuff. now if the male that he used was an eclipse het albino and the enigma was a het tremper and the baby was proved out that it was het and not 66% het then you could say it like you said it. but it wasnt it was a RAPTOR.

to be historically correct with you the RAPTOR did come first by a day or two. so if any thing you should be saying a non albino RAPTOR not an Eclipse, (if you want to be politically correct). but i say we should just call it like it is RAPTOR and Eclipse. you dont see people calling sunglows, albino super hypo tangs Carottails.

we have to come up with names for some of the new morphs so it dosent take us 5 hours to say what an animal is.

like the
solid red eyed mack super snow tremper albino patternless enigma
(supernova):main_lipsrsealed:

any way Mike's male is an Enigma Het RAPTOR

and my male lets just say is a family member

 

[eyelids]

I'll put my money on MS Raptor Enigma...

All of the Tremper Enigma pics I've seen were brighter as hatchlings other than a couple between you and Alberto, but they were obviously premature or runts (which are usually muted in color) because they were so small... That leads me to believe the muted color on this one is due to the Mack Snow gene...

Yeah it needs to be proved out yadda yadda yadda, but congrats you guys rock!

 

[Gazz]

like the
solid red eyed mack super snow tremper albino patternless enigma
(supernova):main_lipsrsealed:

any way Mike's male is an Enigma Het RAPTOR

and my male lets just say is a family member

Like i said enigma het tremper albino & eclipse(eclipse+albino=ruby eye) RAPTOR is a whloe morph and in it is PATTERNLESS there clearly banded enigmas.The only bit that's change on your albino eclipse enigma is the eyes.Sorry but to me this make no sence as there are no 100% RAPTOR's as the only parts that are 100% is the albino and the eclipse the rest you may or may not get.If you breed a jungle to a blizzard then back breed there offspring would you call the blizzard of this breeding jungle blizzards.Or the offspring of a SHTCT X blizzard a SHTCT blizzard.

IMO if it's not (tremper albino,eclipse,proper mint patternless stripe,it's not a RAPTOR to me as there is also tangerine reverse striped,tangerine striped,broken striped jungles that all get miss named as RAPTOR's.Only the one that look like striped-super hybino-with eclipse eyes do i consider RAPTOR's.

And the (supernova) I'd just say Tremper albino super snow patternless enigma het eclipse.As super snow eyes are always pure black/red so you'd never know 100% whitch gene is dominant but if the eyes are pure black/red it's almost 100% that the super snow eye gene is dominant as you would expect to see more partial eclipse if not.

I'm fully aware this is esayer said then done and for anyone selling these leo on the scale that you do would like as esay life as possible and this work for you so fair do's.But ontill the name supernova has been drumed into someone head on what the name means and whats in it genetics you have to keep saying it over and over anyway.Just in my opinion is let the name to the talking and write it once and say no more rather than write it once and explain the genetics a 1000 times.

It's just my opinion there no need to go into a rant about :main_rolleyes: at the end of the day you made you name it.Anyway STUNNING leo and CONGRAT'S on being the first to throw a tremper albino eclipse enigma :main_thumbsup: .