This i not pos! Question for Genetic freaks

[supperl]

this groupe in this combination is since bought 3-4 years ago.
THe male came from Steve and I guess was already a big boy and the females were raised at her home. So these girls never saw another male
And the male never saw other females(except maybe at Steves as I dunno how big the boy was when bought but the females were youngsters).

So this is realy cool^^

 

[paulnj]

So the male SS has been in there with the girls for 4 years.. huh?

 

[snared99]

Sperm retention at its best

 

[paulnj]

Sperm retention at its best

:main_yes: that's where my replies were headed.

 

[snared99]

great minds think alike

 

[tangerineman]

sperm retention?

...scary thought for people buying previous bred females...
could be just like playing the lottery...depending on what was bred before..

if it IS sperm retention, that makes guaranteeing genetic makeup of future offspring....awkward..lol

..hmm

D

 

[snared99]

This does not happen very often but i have had it happen to me once. In the wild these animals go through dry/wet and hot and cold seasons. And when they are going through these seasons the sperm from the previous breeding season is generally killed due to many variables such as heat/dehydration to the animal/ decrease in availbility in food/etc. But this is mother natures way of making way for the next season and new genetics to be passed on....Survival of the Fitest. Also in times where the seasons are not that bad the sperm can be retained and actually viable for the next season, if a new male doesnt come along and fertilize.

It all comes down to we dont control everything...lol Sometimes nature sneaks in.

 

[Krow]

Nice looking babies!!

 

[tangerineman]

oops

Hi SNARED99

sorry i misread the statements...

i understand sperm retention, for some reason i was thinking 3-4 years of sperm retention,as in a female hadn't been bred in that long...that idea was SCARY to me, sorry.

i shouldn't have skimmed the post...:main_lipsrsealed:

Duane

 

[supperl]

would be a good possebility but from what I understood from her, the females have never been breed to something else. She raised the females and put them together with the male.
I also thought of this but it´s to easy on this 2 babies

 

[Baoh]

Thats a great post and I think I haven´t understood #1 very well.
As for what I know the female(at #4) would have had to retain sperm for around 3 or more years is somethign like that even pos.?
I personally would love the idea of a total yellow MSS^^ but maybe it is just a defect or so I dunno.
On the last thing you wrote could it be that a CO-Dom trait becomes rezessive on some way? Somehow a het MSS ?

To the first question- I do not know the absolute limit of sperm retention in leopard geckos. In chelonians, it can be years, but that means nothing to the matter at hand.

To the second question- Not exactly, no. MS is a het MSS, by the way. The purely hypothetical dysfunctional MS gene would only allow the MS to overcome the natural pattern and color if it replaced the Wild Type allele for the normal gene.

So, hypothetically:

gene+gene=visual result

MS+WT=MS
MSnew+WT=WT
MS+MS=MSS
MSnew+MS=Possible MSS/MSSnew (nothing sure - just an idea)
MSnew+MSnew=Possibly the same as above or more extreme

Just an idea that would require proving out.

The project could be really cool or a total waste, depending upon whether or not there was sperm retained or a mistake by the owner.

In what Baoh posted if I am understanding scenario #1 correctly that means this could happen again with the same male, right? If something has gone awry so that he is now producing sperm that is missing one of the genes necessary to produce the mack snow trait, there is a possibility that future offspring could also be something other than snows. If that is the case to prove it out would you want to breed him to something that is recessive such as a visual albino, and see if it produces something other than a snow again? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. I am finding this to be a great learning opportunity.

As a remote possibility, assuming that is what has occurred, yes. I would breed him to a normal and a Super Snow. I would breed the unusual offspring to a normal, a Mack Snow and a Super Snow. The probability of getting those two babies was incredibly low, assuming it was the germ line, less if it was not the germ line (nearly impossible), and most likely an error due to sperm retention or records of accidental contact.

 

[supperl]

as it can´t be sperm retention it might be some MSnew.
I hope she will holdback these babies in a perfect world they are 1.1 and this would make the breeding next year so much easier showing what it is I hope she will hold the babies and we will see some updates next year with the own babies

Boah I know that basically a MS is a het MSS but I mean a version like in the rezessive traits where you can´t see that the MS gen is involed in the het version but in the homozygous version.
But your right if this is not a mistkae it could be a cool project

 

[Baoh]

You could always offer to buy the babies from her and do the crosses yourself. Either way, I wish anyone working on it the best of luck. I have some oddballs of my own that I am trying to determine the genetics of. Takes time and luck.

 

[Bellalee]

Interesting conversation.. .. Good luck with them..

 

[GeckoHut]

Actually I believe that they are from the second female. She appears to be a normal. A SS and a normal WILL produce normal offspring. THus the two babies. This appears to be the case. They def. aren't SS or MS. Because the female has reduced spotting the babies are showing lottsa yellow currently. From my experience in breeding they are just two normals. Im pretty sure thats the case. But there are no yellow SS nor can there be. The trait causes the lack of yellow pigment, a leo going yellow is going backwards not foward. Even MS look much different than that when born. If you get some of the older breeders in here i'll bet they say they're normals as well.

 

[supperl]

GeckoHut a Super SNow and a Normal should never produce normals.
Mack SNow is CO-DOminant the SUperform paired to anything else gives at least Mack SNows but never a normal beside the pos. of something new.
WHat I understood from boah maybe it happened that the Mack gen has a defect and that these are indeed mack snows just not with the power to lock the colour away which could end in a super snow with yellow instead of white which we can´t name a Super Snow anymore cause this would be a new rezessive morph than.

All this is just theorie and has to be proofen, fact is no sperm retenation or egg mislabeling has happend here so something is wrong but it can´t be a SS gives normal babies aside the pos of a defect in the gen or a mutation or something like that.

I don´t know it but I hope she will testbreed them^^

 

[Baoh]

Actually I believe that they are from the second female. She appears to be a normal. A SS and a normal WILL produce normal offspring. THus the two babies. This appears to be the case. They def. aren't SS or MS. Because the female has reduced spotting the babies are showing lottsa yellow currently. From my experience in breeding they are just two normals. Im pretty sure thats the case. But there are no yellow SS nor can there be. The trait causes the lack of yellow pigment, a leo going yellow is going backwards not foward. Even MS look much different than that when born. If you get some of the older breeders in here i'll bet they say they're normals as well.

Please pay attention.

 

[Micka]

You had to have a new mutation, it is clear that many combinations are made for the time being and it is not uncommon to have some discomfort with imcompatibilités hide (HET) which it part of your hide MALE sms is it HET?
When n 'there is also female?
What are the parameters and the duration of the incubation?
Although if this codom Mack Snow silk present in a different phenotype (Yellow for the White).
You can test the form Super to see if the eyes are descendants of Black Eyes (^^,).

Many Thanks
Sorry for my English
Micka (^^

 

[Halley]

What are the hatch dates of your breeders?

 

[GeckoHut]

Please pay attention.

Pay attention? Don't attempt to brush me off with your lame quote. Obviously they aren't part of the SNOW GENE or they would be white, an albino isn't an albino unless there is NO black pigment. A snow means WHITE instead of yellow. Even MS babies start WHITE then develop their YELLOW hue later in life. Just because it came from a SS DOES NOT mean that you cannot have a normal baby. So you can understand:

Codominance
In codominance, neither phenotype is recessive. Instead, the heterozygous individual expresses both phenotypes. A common example is the ABO blood group system. The gene for blood types has three alleles: A, B, and i. i causes O type and is recessive to both A and B. The A and B alleles are codominant with each other. When a person has both an A and a B allele, the person has type AB blood.

When two persons with AB blood type have children, the children can be type A, type B, or type AB. There is a 1A:2AB:1B phenotype ratio instead of the 3:1 phenotype ratio found when one allele is dominant and the other is recessive. This is the same phenotype ratio found in matings of two organisms that are heterozygous for incomplete dominant alleles.

This is why you have produced nomal leos. They aren't a NEW morph niether are they mutants. They simply are normals nothing more.