Thoughts on Black Eyed Enigmas??

[bro paul]

Might have missed this-are these only popping up with mack gene as one of the breeders? Or with other enigma crosses with no mack involved? Just wondering if it's the mack gene. Haven't other solid eyes popped up with mack crosses that are not mack x mack or ss involved?

To my knowledge, yes... (only w/ Mack crosses). Not sure if someone has seen "eye morphs" in enigma x blizzard crosses yet?? But that would be different...if we believe those are two different traits.
And yes, last season I have personally hatched a few "solid eyed" Mack snows...one Mack Snow Bell...two Mack Snows het Tremper...and one Mack Snow Blizzard.

 

[boutiquegecko]

So then it could be the mack gene and not the enigma gene at all that's causing the "eye" headaches.
Have any enigma crosses with a morph that does not cause a solid eye produced a solid eye?

 

[dprince]

So then it could be the mack gene and not the enigma gene at all that's causing the "eye" headaches.
Have any enigma crosses with a morph that does not cause a solid eye produced a solid eye?

We know it's the mack gene and the enigma gene together that's doing something strange........

See, when I breed a SS to an non mack enigma, I wouldn't expect to see solid black eyes......but I have. Four times. THAT is the mystery we're trying to solve - why, when the mack snow gene needs two copies (homozygous) to produce solid black eyes, it's appearing with one copy of the mack gene in some enigma cross cases. It's like the enigma gene helps "steal" this homozygous trait when it's not a homozygous animal. It's weird, confusing......and COOL, all at the same time.

 

[godzillizard]

I noticed that when I bred a super snow blizzard to Tremper Blazings(all with at least partial black eyes) that almost all of the offspring--Mack blizzards het tremper--had black eyes (partial or solid) I believe that all these new eye "genes" are not genes, but are a result of multiple genetic 'conditions'

Certain mutations when bred to other certain mutations, interact to produce a seemingly new creation--i.e--the 'R' in raptor

Great topic! It's nice to know i'm not the only one obsessing about these things...

 

[cheeseball705]

wow mike that some great research lol. it is funny though jsut how many differences there are when the enigma gene is thrown into it.

 

[boutiquegecko]

Deb-do you know of any enigmas hatching out with solid eyes that are not crossed with mack, blizzard etc? Or are these only happening in mack x enigma crosses?

 

[yellermelon]

Hey you know how they were sayin the enigmas could be partialy dominant like with one you would get more enigmas that with another. I forget how to explain this Im having a stupid moment..Well mabye the macks arnt actuall...a true co-dom mabye somthing else and somtime the SS eye pops up with a regular mack. Ok I want to erase what I just typed cause it sounds like rubbish...but mabye it will help if someone understands what Im saying at all lol.

 

[Gazz]

So far the few all of the Mack Enigmas with black eyes have two solid black eyes, right? No snake eyes? Also, does anyone know if any were produced last season?

Here's one expressing both black & iris pattern.
http://www.acreptiles.com/geckos_leopard_enigma.htm

A lot of people are saying eclipse for any leo with a broken iris pattern.Do you think it would work to refer to tremper line(proven recessive trait linked to the patternless striped trait) as TRUE ECLIPSE ??.And broken iris on blizzard,mack'and other broken iris traits (unknown genetics but seems to be random) as FALSE ECLIPSE ?? looks like but not the real deal.

Ofcourse not counting super snows as black/red eyes is half of what make a super snow a super snow.And i think no one is lost on that part.

 

[miamimike]

Don't know if this will help, hinder, or provide nothing other than a few eye pics but....

......these are shots of an enigma I hatched about a three weeks ago. It is from an enigma het raptor male x a mack snow 66% het raptor female (so I was guessing that the female is now proved out to be 100% het eclipse but it seems maybe not so easy huh?)

The obvious dilemna here is the fact that the left eye is 100% solid black....I have taken many many shots from all different angles to see it clearly and it has no break in it that I can see. The right eye is strange though....maybe snake...I dont know for sure what to call it....I havent seen a snake eye quite like it before. I took a final picture of its "weird" eye over-exposed a little to try to see better exactly what was going on in it....

No clue....but just thought I'd throw a little "fuel to the fire" here :main_robin:

 

[PacHerp]

INSANE... I actually don't know what to say... those pics are something else!

stripe anyone???

 

[paulnj]

(mack?) striped eclipse enigma.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

A reverse stripe would have the dark coloration down the center of the dorsal area.
Very cool animal and a very complicated trait. lol

 

[paulnj]

A reverse stripe would have the dark coloration down the center of the dorsal area.
Very cool animal and a very complicated trait. lol

oopsy

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Good reading. I think there is some twisted stuff between Mack Snow genes and a few of the others (as evidenced with the Enigmas eyes, Blizzard Eyes, etc.) that are still somewhat of an unknown, and may remain that way for a while.....but it at least adds to the surprise of looking into the incubator

 

[boutiquegecko]

He's neat looking, but I'd say maybe the raptor genes are at work or at least contributing. I think we need to look at basic mack & enigma crosses that have no raptor, blizzard or known eclipse gene at work to try to isolate what's going on.
So it might be or is on the table now that enigma may not be 100% dominant?
Is that right eye solid? It looks like a pupil in there or is it the lighting?