Venemoid snakes?

[nevinm]

talk to any venomous snake owner baoh. its common sense. when you know when you see a trend of venoids dieing at a younger age than the same snake with venom, well i think that venom might really have something to do with... and its not just a coincadence

 

[nevinm]

that is of course with the exception of those who do the devenomizing

 

[Baoh]

talk to any venomous snake owner baoh. its common sense. when you know when you see a trend of venoids dieing at a younger age than the same snake with venom, well i think that venom might really have something to do with... and its not just a coincadence

I thought you were going to offer proof.

Toss me a plausible mechanism.

 

[nevinm]

nah, people get banned from here when they quote other poeple that arent on this page. here is the other problem, you know its true, you just like causing contraversy

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

here is the other problem, you know its true, you just like causing contraversy

Seldom a truer word spoken...:main_yes:

Now put away the spoon. The pot's been stirred enough. :main_rolleyes:

 

[Baoh]

nah, people get banned from here when they quote other poeple that arent on this page. here is the other problem, you know its true, you just like causing contraversy

I didn't get banned when I cited an actual literature source instead of internet hearsay.

I actually don't know it's true. I don't deal with serpents. A bunch of people are saying it's true, but are offering nothing in the way of verifiable evidence after claiming there is so much of it. I'm requesting its presentation, but neither you nor others seem willing to pony up.

 

[nevinm]

i am telling you as a person who has experiance with venomous snakes.

do you deny the fact that venom helps aid in digestion?

 

[Baoh]

i am telling you as a person who has experiance with venomous snakes.

do you deny the fact that venom helps aid in digestion?

Standards of evidence work both ways. I don't care who you happen to be or what you consider your experience level to be. I see a bunch of people on here saying it is bad "because", but without offering something beyond mere say-so. I'm accepting the possibility of either side being true and am just asking for genuine evidence showing that, compared to unaltered counterparts, that this is resulting in reduced lifespan and other negative impacts on quality of life in captive animals.

If you have that evidence, provide it. If not, admit you don't have evidence and you just *believe* it to be so. I cannot say either way, so I'd like folks who can meet a burden of proof to back their claims up and come forward with the legitimate evidence that requires.

Do you have verifiable evidence to offer that shows that an absence of venom hinders some minimum standard of acceptable digestion in the animals that produce it and that these animals without its assistance go on to experience resultant malnutrition from being unable to extract nutrients from their prey items? Consider both sides. I don't have stock in either side.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

OK, here's my evidence. And after this I want no more senseless bickering! :main_angry:

Boah, you're a reptile lover right? If you are, then even you have to agree that it is morally and ethically wrong to alter a reptiles physical being simply for the sake of you being able to keep and handle it, or? What purpose does this senseless mutilation serve? Let the animal live the way it was created! Why is this viewpoint so hard for you to accept and understand?

And the answer to Nevin's question is yes. It's a fact that snake venom starts breaking down they pray's tissue prior to consumption.

 

[Akayana]

If you are, then even you have to agree that it is morally and ethically wrong

I'm sorry Ink_Scorpion but I must highly disagree with you on this. I am an animal lover and I would kill anyone that wanted to maliciously harm any animal that belonged to me. However, I do not disagree with people keeping venomoid snakes. The reason I'm posting this is because you are saying ANY reptile lover would disagree with keeping venomoids. Which is completely and utterly wrong. (Myself being proof of that.) To end this little debate all together. Some people are going to agree with it, and others will disagree. So lets all keep the peace and agree to disagree.

 

[Baoh]

OK, here's my evidence. And after this I want no more senseless bickering! :main_angry:

Boah, you're a reptile lover right? If you are, then even you have to agree that it is morally and ethically wrong to alter a reptiles physical being simply for the sake of you being able to keep and handle it, or? What purpose does this senseless mutilation serve? Let the animal live the way it was created! Why is this viewpoint so hard for you to accept and understand?

And the answer to Nevin's question is yes. It's a fact that snake venom starts breaking down they pray's tissue prior to consumption.

That's not evidence. It's a position based on a personal belief system.

I am a reptile lover.

What makes it morally wrong? What morals does it violate? As for ethics, that's the point of the debate. If a group of people agrees that it violates their group's concept of an ethical standard, then it is wrong to them. However, if another group exists with an opposing standard, then it is not wrong to that second group.

I accept and understand that people throw words like "evidence", "morals", and "ethics" around without understanding what those words mean.

Nevin's question was to me, the answer for which is not "yes", as I do not deny that it assists in breaking down prey, so pay close attention to the language of the question, please, as well as the very specific manner in which I answer.

My questions have gone without answers. They have received responses, but not answers. Why is it so difficult for others to answer instead of just respond? Why is it so difficult for people to provide the evidence they claim exists? Surely, if all that is claimed is so readily available, it could be delivered without so much injection of personal value instead of actual evidence. So far, though, I'm seeing people who care just getting upset easily, but providing little to nothing in the way of factual substance.

 

[nevinm]

ignorance is bliss

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

I'm sorry Ink_Scorpion but I must highly disagree with you on this. I am an animal lover and I would kill anyone that wanted to maliciously harm any animal that belonged to me. However, I do not disagree with people keeping venomoid snakes.

Then you're just as dispicable as the other individual that demands evidence that there's anything wrong with this type of act. What the hell rock did you folks crawl out from under? Seriously!

The reason I'm posting this is because you are saying ANY reptile lover would disagree with keeping venomoids. Which is completely and utterly wrong. (Myself being proof of that.) To end this little debate all together. Some people are going to agree with it, and others will disagree. So lets all keep the peace and agree to disagree.

Woah! Wait a second? Are you saying you possess a venomoid? You seriously went and supported the practice of removing the venom glands from a venomous snake? And you call yourself a reptile lover? Is that supposed to be some sort of sick joke? So that venomous snake had to give up it's "life tools" so you could keep it? Here's my "opinion", regardless if you like hearing it or not. If you can't keep the snake with it's venom glands, then it shouldn't have to sacrifice part of it's anatomy so you can keep it! That's Inhumane!

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

And now Akayana and Boah, you can enjoy arguing among yourselves. I've said all I have to say on this subject.

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

[Akayana]

Ink. If you had read my very first post on this thread you'd know I have not ever kept a snake, venomoid, venomous or nonvenomous. I do not even have the money to get the venomoid operation done if I did own a venomous snake. And here is my first post just for your convenience.

Truthfully, I don't keep snakes at all much less hots but I don't think it's wrong to keep them in some cases. I think It's nuts to do it on a whim "just because." But I think for things like some educational shows were it would be too irresponsible to bring a venomous the venomoid would be a good tool to educate people why NOT to get these types of snakes. Again I'd like to state that I don't think it should be allowed for ANYONE to do to their snake and I also think it'd be a good idea to require a class or something to take before they can do the surgery. I know I'll probably get a raging debate from this post, but I don't see how it's much different from clipping the wings from domestic birds and fowl. I personally wouldn't do it, but not going to bash someone else for it either.

I've already explained my view on venomoids, and that's not what my second post was about. My Second post was stating that your wrong to say all reptile lovers dislike venomoids. Because the truth is, many could care less, and some even agree with it. Please don't bash me without knowing your facts. To address the misunderstanding in my last post,

"Which is completely and utterly wrong. (Myself being proof of that.)"

I am referring to the fact that not all reptile lovers think it's morally or ethically wrong.
Now personally I see you as a good person, I have no reason to nor have I insulted you. And if I have by accident I apologize. But the way you went off on me without knowing anything about me quite frankly makes you look like you have no control of your tongue. I'd hate to see someone do the same thing to you.

-Edit-
I suggest reading the whole thread before attacking someone.

 

[Baoh]

ignorance is bliss

Thanks for providing so much evidence.

 

[Baoh]

And now Akayana and Boah, you can enjoy arguing among yourselves. I've said all I have to say on this subject.

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

We have yet to argue in this thread, as the discussion would require engagement instead of avoidance in favor of a weak appeal to emotion. Instead, I've been met with lacrimal discharge, but that has come to be expected.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

-Edit-
I suggest reading the whole thread before attacking someone.

I actually read your post at least three times! :main_yes: What does that tell you about your literary skills? :main_rolleyes: :main_laugh:

 

[Baoh]

I actually read your post at least three times! :main_yes: What does that tell you about your literary skills? :main_rolleyes: :main_laugh:

It tells her they're better than your literacy.

 

[nevinm]

http://wildlifeworld.info/blog/?cat=3

darn.... that was hard.... first thing that popped up along with several houndred other hits. "venom is needed by the snakes, as it aids in digestion."