When Did You Decide to Breed?

[Desdemona]

I am sure this has been asked before, but I am just curious when the breeders here decided to take that plunge. What made you decide to have little gecko babies?

I have always found genetics fascinating and messed with dwarf hamsters for about a year or so. I got a surprise normal silk and that was the highlight of that little hobby. I bread him to two females (separate cages) that had the same fur color and they had almost identical litters. One female had one extra, normal (wild color) baby, but otherwise they were perfectly matched. I found it pretty interesting. There was a good chance the girls were sisters, hard to tell though because they were pet store critters.

Anyways, I had a lot of fun with it. I am tempted to learn about and maybe breed these guys, but I am telling myself "no" right now since I am sure it can be time and space consuming. I would still like to hear people's "why you started" stories or even your favorite hatchling to date.

 

[Dog Shrink]

I don't breed leos but if you don't mind just my 2 cents on the breeding of any animal is: it isn't a venture that should be taken lightly, has to be looked at reaslistically as far as profit versus expense, should never be gone into with pofit being the soul motivating factor, and at least a year of caring for and understanding that animal and all that is involved in their care, morphology, husbandry, healthy breeding practices, etc. I honestly think some one should make up a breeder's entry exam and if some one considering breeding herps can't answer with a passing grade then they should reconsider their ideas as a breeder and delay it until they have a better understanding.

 

[Desdemona]

I completely agree. I wouldn't start breeding unless I had a full knowledge of their genetics as well. I'd had rodents for a long time before the dwarfs and they had incredibly simplistic genetics. I know Leos won't be the same. I also only breed if I can house all of the offspring for their full life span. Who knows, no one might want your critters. Considering that these guys can live for 20 years, that is a big commitment. I've done single litters before of mice and rats in the past, with the intentions of just keeping all of the babies. I would do something similar with the geckos if I did decide to breed, only one litter and see what happens, but ready to keep all of the offspring if I had too.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Good for you. A lot of new breeders think that they're going to sell everything and make no accomodations for the ones that don't sell. It's the same with my rabbitry 'cept I do have an outlet for all the babies that don't make show muster otherwise I'd be over run.

I think the best thing anyone can do when considering whetheror not they're ready to breed is to be honest with themselves, if you're still asking simple morph questions because you can't figure out the calculator, you're not ready... if you're asking how to tell if your female is ovulating or if there's eggs visible or if they're just fat pads, then you're not ready... if you don't know how to introduce 2 leos for a productive non-stressful mating session, you're not ready... IMO ALL these things are breeding 101 stuff, and should be known before even considering breeding. I'm glad that you see how important educating one's self BEFORE going into this venture is invalueable.

I would have loved to see your teddy bear hamsters. I had one once when I was a teen that a friend found outdoors, somehow it survived, and it was the sweetest lil critter ever (till he decided to hibernate and never woke up ).

 

[Desdemona]

I had the Russian Dwarf, the little tiny ones. They are cute, but they only live for a couple of years. One reason why I'm liking these guys is that they live longer! I did have a couple of the Syrian/teddy bear variety in high school (I've had a lot of rodents). One was my sisters, sort of (I did all of the hard work and she just terrorized it). The one that was my sister's got lose and ran around hour house for two weeks before showing up. We thought for sure she was dead. I have no idea what she ate. Maybe she had a good cheek stash before she took off, haha.

 

[T-ReXx]

Good for you for doing the research and asking the right questions before you get into breeding! It's a very refreshing take on things. I've been breeding reptiles for over 14 years, so I'll give you some tips.

To answer your question I first decided to start breeding when I had learned all there was to learn about basic husbandry. I had been keeping leopard geckos for 3 years before I did my first pairing, and had raised several babies up to adulthood. Once I was completely familiar with the species, I did my research on genetics. Leopard gecko genetics are slightly more complicated than those of rodents, but in reality, they're not really all that hard. Once you have a solid grasp of how genetics in general work the knowledge is easily applied to the geckos.

What I would advise is: start small. Far to many new breeders get "new gecko fever" and spread themselves to thin with too many projects and too many animals. Start with a pair or trio of the morphs you like the best, or the basic genetic components to make them, and try it out for a season before you invest in more animals. That way, if it turns out breeding is not for you, you won't have a large amount of animals to find homes for.
Also, make sure you have everything you need before you start. Get your incubator and hatchling housing setup way a head of time. Also, my rule with leopard geckos is to always plan for 20 babies per female. It's rarely that high, but it does happen, and it's better to plan for the maximum and have housing in place rather than have to get last minute setups together when you end up with more babies than you were expecting.

One more thing: start out with the highest quality animals you can afford. I see way to many people breeding normals, subpar tangerines, and albinos simply because they can, and in reality there are plenty of these animals out there so there's no need to make more. The main reason behind breeding should be to produce the best animals you can and starting with excellent stock is the way to get on that track. Also, higher quality animals sell better, so you are more likely to find homes for your babies if they are outstanding examples of their morph from good parents than if they are average or poor quality.

Good luck with your endevour! I no longer breed leos but they were the first species I bred and I consider them an excellent starter species into the world of reptile breeding.

 

[acpart]

I had always wanted to breed parakeets for color since I was a young teen but never had the resources (space, time, money) to do it. I got my first leopard gecko in 2003 and started breeding with just 1.2 two years later after reading a lot and figuring out how and where I could house the babies. The first year I produced 13 babies, kept 1 and was able to sell/donate all the others. I definitely agree with the "do your research" and "start small" posters' ideas. For additional resources, I wrote 2 relevant articles that you can find on Gecko Time: Breeding geckos on a small scale and How to Sell your Geckos.

Aliza

 

[Jordan]

i began to breed after owning a few geckos for about a year and a half. i had done plenty of reading of several books and knew the morphs and genetics before anything. In fact if anything i was a bit too 'goody goody' and nerdy.

for a while i never understood why breeding was so good, because all i had read about was how it costs alot and how much space and commitment needed etc. but when that first egg hatches... its sooo easy to understand it

 

[Desdemona]

At least with my prior rodent history I know how important it is to start out with good animals! The last 5 rats I owned all came from poor stock and developed problems (like Mico) and died younger than they should have regardless of my efforts. I wouldn't want to add poor stock into the market, that is for sure.

For me it is very much about the off spring and the genetics, not at all for the money. The only reason why I sell, in general, is to not go broke (though I wouldn't breed as a source of income) and so that I don't have some kid who wants something for a science project looking up my pets. But, its not about making money, so that is not my biggest concern. Being over run with animals would be though!

 

[M_surinamensis]

I don't allow some of my animals to breed all that frequently. Others I encourage as often as possible, or with target numbers in mind. It is always a case by case, animal to animal decision.

I really have no desire to be a commercial breeder. I'd enjoy the work but my tastes are not the same as the ones enjoyed by the public at large it seems and I get frustrated pretty easily when dealing with people. Not always with individuals, but with people as a whole. I simply do not have the patience to play nice with customers if they are doing, saying or asking stupid things.

So I breed when...

... someone I respect or like asks me to do so, for them specifically.

... I want to do so for myself, because I want to witness firsthand the behaviors or development of the animals in question. This tends to hold especially true for animals with complex or unique courtship, breeding or rearing behaviors.

... I feel some degree of obligation to propagate captive animals, when imports have been cut off or when captive animals show a marked and measurable tendency towards a healthier captive lifespan.

... when there are unknowns about the captive husbandry and breeding triggers, presenting me with a bit of a mystery to unlock. I've been attempting to breed hellbenders, with some unpredictable levels of success, for the last fifteen years. When Mountain Horned Dragons first hit the market in that wave of imports in the nineties and they were not being bred with any regularity because most of them were not being kept properly, I was producing them and taking copious notes.

Ultimately though, the "Why?" behind the impulse to do so is a lot less important than the question of "Should I?" which ultimately makes the decision. Questions you seem like you're already asking yourself; is the stock you have going to contribute positively to the captive gene pool, do you have something to do with the offspring once they arrive or are you prepared for a scenario where you end up keeping them, are the breeding and husbandry practices ethical and intelligent, is there any real need for these animals to be bred?

I'll join in with the others who have responded and say, it is good to see someone pausing to think about the ramifications of a decision to breed, rather than just rushing forward with the first male and the first female they can lay their hands on. Someone looking at the "Why?" and the "When?" and the "If?" instead of just the "How?" I have a lot of respect for your choice in considering the situation first. Doing it right is a lot more important than doing it fast and it's excellent to see someone who understands that.

 

[robin]

I get frustrated pretty easily when dealing with people. Not always with individuals, but with people as a whole. I simply do not have the patience to play nice with customers if they are doing, saying or asking stupid things.

no, really? i never would have guessed

 

[roger]

no, really? i never would have guessed

LOL Tongue in cheek Robin ? LOL

 

[gothra]

I kept leos for 9 years, never bred them eventhough I really wanted to, because I don't have a solution on how to deal with all the hatchlings. Until 2 of my "oldies" died recently, I took the plunge, so the blood of my favourite geckos can be continued. I bought a new female for breeding purposes, she will be bred to 2 of my oldest males.

I will not incubate every single egg, I intend to keep 3 babies max from each; because that's the absolute maximum space I can squeeze from my apartment to locate tanks. Please don't tell me about the ethics of not incubating all eggs, I have spent enough time thinking this through before I come to this conclusion. I would rather not hatch out babies if I can't be certain that they will have a better life than in my hands; so I won't be selling or giving any away.

p.s. I live on the other side of the globe, many people keep their leos in tiny critter boxes here. I will not allow my leos' offsprings to live in those conditions.

 

[roger]

I kept leos for 9 years, never bred them eventhough I really wanted to, because I don't have a solution on how to deal with all the hatchlings. Until 2 of my "oldies" died recently, I took the plunge, so the blood of my favourite geckos can be continued. I bought a new female for breeding purposes, she will be bred to 2 of my oldest males.

I will not incubate every single egg, I intend to keep 3 babies max from each; because that's the absolute maximum space I can squeeze from my apartment to locate tanks. Please don't tell me about the ethics of not incubating all eggs, I have spent enough time thinking this through before I come to this conclusion. I would rather not hatch out babies if I can't be certain that they will have a better life than in my hands; so I won't be selling or giving any away.

p.s. I live on the other side of the globe, many people keep their leos in tiny critter boxes here. I will not allow my leos' offsprings to live in those conditions.

we would rather see u only incubate the eggs u intend to keep and give proper care for and have room for than u incubate all the eggs and not be able to give them the proper care.. Good to hear !!

 

[Desdemona]

I think not incubating all of the eggs is a plenty good idea. I am sure the debate on that subject is akin to the "abortion" debate in humans, but I am sure a undeveloped egg will feel no pain or have any remote thoughts as to it's dieing. If it is allowed to develop and get stuck living in a dreadful environment it will feel pain and be trapped in that life. Unlike humans, pets have no power to change that. So, no need to create more animals to be stuck in that situation. It just seems like a responsible thing to do.

I really like the idea of only hatching Leos you want to keep for your very first hatching. Seems like a good way to get a few more "free" pets and getting a feel for the process to see if it's something you really want to do. Maybe when my son gets old enough for the "birds and the bee's" questions I can just use the Leos for demonstration, haha! (I promise I am joking on that last one).

 

[gothra]

WOW, I'm so relieved that I'm actually getting support on this. I remembered there were a couple threads on the same issue a while back; and there were quite some members who got upset about not incubating fertile eggs (fertile = life).