Yet another RAPTOR question :)

[Sunshine State Exotics]

This may be more of a rant then a question... In August 05 I bought a male and female raptor from Ron. The male has two snake eyes and the female has one solid red and one snake eye. I bought the snake eyes because Ron said they were unique to raptor and more valuable. Plus I liked them a lot. He was well aware that I wanted to produce raptors though.

Fast forward to last breeding season. Out of all the babies produced... one has two snake eyes and another has one snake eye and one black. All others have black eyes... No raptors

Not understanding the raptor genetics, I emailed Ron. He tells me that I have a 1 in 8 chance to produce pure raptors. When breeding snake eye to snake eye you will get mostly aptors and snake-eyed types.

I ended up holding all last seasons babies back. Plus we just hatched out two aptors today.

What should be my plan with these guys? Last years babies are all 40-45 grams so they are getting close.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I hope this didn't come off as me trying to bad mouth Ron! That wasn't my point.

 

[okapi]

Dont worry about bad mouthing RT, his explaination of his RAPTOR project confused everybody.

You got non-albinos from a RAPTOR X RAPTOR breeding? Thats really weird.

The genetics behind RAPTORs is:
Linebred polygentic traits:
Carrot head
Carrot tail
Tangerine
Stripe
Reverse stripe
Recessive traits:
Tremper albino
Eclipse
And some are giants too, which is a co-dom trait.

You should of gotten 100% Carrot head, Carrot tailed, tangerine, "Patternless stripe" (the result of stripe and reverse stripe canceling eachother out), albino, eclipses. Snake eyes are supposed to be expressing the eclipse gene, but for some reason to a lesser degree than solid eyed eclipses. RT never explains why to anyone for some reason. You should write him back asking how you got a black (non albino) eyed baby from a RAPTOR X RAPTOR breeding. And ask if he can clarify why the odds are 1 in 8 if snake eyes ARE RAPTORs

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I'm sorry... No I got all aptors. One with two snake eyes, one with one black eye and one snake eye, the rest were all black eyed aptors.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

And ask if he can clarify why the odds are 1 in 8 if snake eyes ARE RAPTORs

I guess that is a question I have. Are snake eyes even raptors?

I double checked my invoice from Ron. It says Snake Eyed Raptors.

 

[okapi]

I'm sorry... No I got all aptors. One with two snake eyes, one with one black eye and one snake eye, the rest were all black eyed aptors.

if the solid section of the snake eyes is black, then the albino form of the eclipse trait isnt being expressed. A non albino eclipse is a black eyed aptor.

Can you post pics? They should have albino eyes, and black isnt albino

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I will post some pictures tomorrow night after work. Thanks for your help!

 

[preacherman]

When breeding two animals together that both have "snake-eyes", there is no hard and fast rule regarding how much pigment the eyes of the offspring will dislpay. I have found that if you breed two solid red-eyed R.A.P.T.O.R.s together, you will only produce more of the same. I've also produced many solid red-eyed R.A.P.T.O.R.s from snake-eyed parents, and from parents that were "het" for the Eclipse eye gene.
I'm confused as to how you produced animals with black eyes from R.A.P.T.O.R. parents. Maybe they're just really dark red? Pictures would be helpful.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

Here are some pics

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

The rest

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

After closely looking at all of the babies, I'm wondering if they are all snake eyed. I'm thinking the solid part of the eye just takes up the majority making it look like a solid black eye. What do you think?

 

[justin-branam]

I thought if you bred two raptors you would get all red eyed raptors???

Kind of off subject, but this is why i never plan on buying anything from RT. He almost seems like a crook to me in some cases.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I wouldn't call him a crook. I honestly think that when I bought my breeders from him he didn't really understand the gene himself.

Yes, if you breed red eyed to red eyed you will get red eyed babies. I bred snake eye to snake eye.

 

[Harmurray]

My understanding is that you cannot have a black eye on an albino animal hence the "snake eyes" on your geckos must be partially solid red. I have seen a Raptor hatched at a lower temperature display a more burgundy color than the bright ruby red color. Could your babies have dark burgundy snake eyes rather than black?

Harold

 

[spykerherps]

I think that I read some ware that the incubation temp can have the same effect on the raptors eye color as on the skin pigment Lower temp darker eyes higher temp the brighter the red eyes. ?Maybe not.
Edit sorry didn't read the post above before posting.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I wonder if I'm color blind To me they look black, but they may be dark red or burgundy. These were all incubated at lower temps.

I've got some incubating as males that should be hatching any day now. We'll see if incubation temps have anything to do with it.

 

[BluGnat]

Nothing helpful to contribute - just wanted to say that they are beautiful!

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

Thanks Heather!

 

[okapi]

eyes look black to me... They look like non albino eclipses to me. But then they dont have black body pigment. I dont know what to tell you about the raptors youve hatched. They look like nonalbino RAPTORs with brown pigment. I would call them enigmas, but the name is already taken

I wouldnt call RT a crook, hes just very vauge and likes to keep people in the dark to generate sales. And he might of told a lie here or there....... :main_rolleyes: Im starting to wonder if he truely understands genetics. Im a biology major and some of the stuff in his book and on his site are a little strange.

 

[bro paul]

That's cool Larry! I hope the eyes are truly black (they look it from the pics)...wouldn't surprise me w/ all the new traits & combo popping up here and there.