Yet another RAPTOR question :)

[preacherman]

Those are awesome looking animals, Larry! What temp did you incubate them at? Incubation temps can have an effect on the color of the eye. I have a Tremper Super Snow female that was incubated at low temps, and her eyes look black, even though they are just very very dark red.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

I just emailed Ron again and sent him the pictures. We'll see what he says.

We were in the process of moving when their eggs were layed. The first couple babies were incubated at room temps 77-80 because my incubator wasn't setup. The younger babies were in an incubator set at 82.

 

[eyelids]

Those are sweet! I think it's from the low temps especially the room temp ones.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Ruby eyes are considerably darker from lower incubation temps. Those ARE Ruby Eyed Albinos.

Ruby Eye= Albino form of "Eclipse". Eclipse refers to just the eye.

A "Snake Eye" is just a Eclipse w/ partially solid eyes, that is the only difference. I believe it is just that not all "Eclipse" have solid eyes.

 

[robin]

is it me or does most things dealing with tremper end up coming back to his quirky incubation method?

i think ima go cook some leos and see what i can invent or change them to green or something, ta ta

 

[okapi]

You wanna make green geckos?
I know how
"super tangerine" X lavender high yellow + 86-87*F incubation = emerald

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The dark eyed RAPTORs (low incubation temperature) actually have very, very dark, garnet colored eyes. I know they look black, but they aren't really. I produced a female RAPTOR that looks very much like the one posted on this thread, and her eyes appear black in natural light, but if you use a pen light you can see they are dark red (if you can catch a glimpse before the iris closes!)

 

[okapi]

that makes sense. So you did get RAPTORs :main_thumbsup: congrats

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

That makes me feel a lot better!

Actually, today I looked at one of my hatchlings incubated at 82. The eye looks black, but I was able to see the center of the iris shine red...just like a treasure

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

The cool thing is I held them all back and all appear to be females.

 

[Gazz]

Only once have i seen this name used in RAPTOR's but by the look of them i'm pretty sure you have Chocolate RAPTOR's or Chocolte snake eyed RAPTOR'S whitch ever yours are.Chocolate just means a Tremper albino that been incubated at a lower tremperature.If you look at some of the regular chocolate albinos the eye in some can look non albino coz there so dark.If you place yours in a non stress bit higher invierment you can get them looking like a regular brighter RAPTOR.Look RT's book if you have it (The herpetoculture of leopard geckos) page 136 at the Tangerine albino that's both the same leo but you would think so also look at the eyes.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Once Tremper Albinos darken they are not going to change back unless it is just a natural lightening, which DOES happen. It has nothing to do with stress, Gazz. Some individuals will lighten back up some while others will not.

 

[robin]

they are dark because they are incubated at lower temps normally. i dont call the chocolate trempers because, well i have my opinion on it. i prefer to call them dookie browns

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

hahaha

 

[Gazz]

Once Tremper Albinos darken they are not going to change back unless it is just a natural lightening, which DOES happen. It has nothing to do with stress, Gazz. Some individuals will lighten back up some while others will not.

So a incubaited higher temp hatching a typical (yellow & lav) leo can go chocolate in cooler temp but will lighten back once the temp is back at regular temp.

But a incubaited lower temp hatching a typical (brown & pink) leo will always be chocolate no matter what the temp.

That pretty much it ??.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

You got it kind of backwards.

The lighter ones from high temps can get "cooled" and turn dark especially in their first year. Same thing though, they may lighten up some, naturally.


The darker ones from incubation temps can lighten back up some. It just happens that some were meant to be(?) lighter. I do not think it has anything to do with temperature after the fact they came from low temps and are dark. Some will lighten up as they grow others will not.

So there are two ways to have dark Albinos, and/or eyes.

1. low inc. temps.

2. low ambient temps (after hatching)

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

Here is Ron's response:

Yes, these are low temp raptors with all red eyes....if you follow
my suggestion on how to get pretty females then you would
see the light red eyes

congrats!!

 

[preacherman]

I'd just like to ad that not all trempers that are incubated at low temps turn out with dark colors. Some of the nicest A.P.T.O.R.s and R.A.P.T.O.R.s that I've hatched out have been incubated at 81-82 degrees. I don't follow Ron's advice on incubation temps, and I've hatched out some awefully nice looking females.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Chocolate just means a Tremper albino that been incubated at a lower tremperature.

IMO, "chocolate" is just a marketing ploy to describe dark Trempers. I don't see how anybody can keep up with all the latest buzz-words for morphs that have been around for a long time.

Also, since my underwear are in a bunch, I am tired of Tremper getting all the credit for the incubation method he uses to manipulate the color of his albinos. The "Tremper Method" has been around for nearly 20 years, and it was accidently discovered by Dr. David Crews and Dr. W. H. N. Gutzke when they were doing experiments on Temperature Sex Determination (TSD) back in 1988. They found that the higher the incubation temperature, the less dark pigmentation was observed. Later in 1993, Dr. Brian Viets did a similar study and it was followed by Dr. Tousignant a couple of years later, which only partially confirmed the earlier studies.

So, I guess my question is this: If higher incubation temperatures were the key determining factor in the pigment and eye color of Leopard Geckos, then by virtue of the higher temperatures males would be lighter, brighter, have less dark pigmentation and lighter eyes. Right?

Well, this is simply not the case. Not ALL males are lighter and brighter, and not ALL females are darker.

So there must be more than one factor involved! Is it genetics? Is it substrate color? Is it higher/lower environmental temperatures? Is it a stress factor? Is it all of the above?

Perhaps so...

 

[marula]

You wanna make green geckos?
I know how
"super tangerine" X lavender high yellow + 86-87*F incubation = emerald

ta taaaaaaaaaaa