7 dead babies and counting....

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I am on the verge of a breakdown. I am heartbroken, frustrated, and angry beyond words. I have lost 7 babies in the last 48 hours, and have more that will likely die, if not become permanently disfigured. It's completely my fault.

We rearranged my entire gecko room on Sunday afternoon and although I checked all the racks, the temperature controller probe came loose from one of the hatchling racks. The temperature inside the shoe boxes got up to 124 degrees for about a half an hour. When I discovered it, I panicked and pulled the power cord and opened all the boxes. Most of the babies were scratching to get out the front, and some laying in their water bowl. All were still alive.

On Monday, I noticed that 7 babies had severe MBD symptoms - bowed, rubbery spaghetti legs and a few had loose jaws. Most had trouble walking, and some didn't even try. I immediately assumed that my 7 lb. tub of Rep-Cal calcium has somehow gone bad and I tore through all my receipts to find when I bought it. It was 16 months ago, and Dr. Dan Wentz from Rep-Cal said the product shelf-life was about 2 years. I threw it out.

I worked all afternoon and stayed up until 3:30 AM on Monday/Tuesday administering NeoCalglucon (liquid calcium) to all of my geckos. I put in a call to my vet, and found out he is on vacation this week, so I emailed him and have yet to hear back.

Yesterday, (Tuesday) I found 2 dead babies out of the 7 that had MBD symptoms, and after agonizing over every box I opened found 11 more displaying the same problem. I spent the day giving liquid calcium to all the babies in that rack. By last night, I had 5 dead babies.

This morning I woke up to 2 more dead... ones that had the most severe symptoms. I still haven't gone through every shoebox.

I feel totally responsible for this tragedy. I can't sleep, and I am so sick to my stomach right now I could puke. How could I have been so stupid and irresponsible? I'm not thinking straight, and just needed to get this off my chest.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well, I got this email from Dr. Harkewicz. Robin, you were right...

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: unfortunate situation


Marcia,
I'm sorry this happened. A 1/2 hour of increased heat will not cause MBD. It will cause neurological signs that can mimic MBD however, and can be permanent (sort of fry and short circuit the brain). There is nothing you can do at this point, and try not to be so hard on yourself.


Ken Harkewicz, VMD

 

[robin]

i knew it was something to do with the heat. i am so sorry marcia *hug*

 

[nwheat]

Oh, Marcia I'm so sorry!!

That is very interesting news from Dr. Harkewicz - I would not have guessed that heat could cause those symptoms especially so quickly. I hope that many of them will pull through for you!

I know you are feeling just awful, but try to listen to the good Dr. & try not to be too hard on yourself! At least you caught it quickly! :iloveyou:

 

[robin]

Oh, Marcia I'm so sorry!!

That is very interesting news from Dr. Harkewicz - I would not have guessed that heat could cause those symptoms especially so quickly.

i have seen this happen with snakes thats why i guessed at that

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Marcia, I am so sorry that happened and I hope the rest of the babies will be OK.

Its not your fault, accidents like that happen and its jsut no ones fault.

 

[KelliH]

I'm sorry Marcia. Please don't blame yourself for this, it's not your fault. Keep your head up, it will be ok.

 

[Jeanne]

Oh Marcia.... I am giving you a BIG Cyber HUG right now.....:HUGS:

 

[PaulSage]

Holy fuck, Marcia. I have been too ashamed to admit it, but just the other day I found that an entire rack of babies has MBD symptoms. Yeah, about 25-30 of them. After talking to my mom (who was taking care of the geckos while I was gone) I was under the impression that it was because she was innocently dumping the calcium powder out of the babies dishes and not replacing it when she fed them. I have been most confused by the fact that all of the afflicted geckos are all in the same rack, even though they're controlled by the same thermostat. Time to go check temperatures, I guess.

I think I know how you feel. I have been in such a foul fucking mood ever since I realized it. Honest to GOD, I have been wanting to just throw in the towel and quit. Even an amazing male Enigma het Bell is fucked up. I think this is why I've had a splitting headache non-stop for the past two days.

Fuck I'm just going to call you.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

How odd that you've both had similar problems. This is one to file away for memory. I didn't know heat could do that.

Real MBD takes one of two things ... long-term abuse, or true congenital metabolic problems. I would never think either one of you could do the first, and to have several geckos with the same congenital problems would be (I think) quite rare.

Finding just one gecko you think might have MBD is awful enough. I can't think of how horrible it would be to find so many.

My own case of MBD is a case of true metabolic problems. Since I first found the MBD, I upped his calcium + D3 to several times what the others get...in fact, that's what's in his calcium bowl in his tub. The progression of the MBD stopped quickly, and seemed to have reversed to an extent. A year later he's about as normal as he can be, and living the life of a pampered bachelor.

The fact that you tried MBD remedies and got no positive results is just one more reason you shouldn't be blaming yourself. You did what you could to diagnose and treat, and didn't nothing to cause MBD. It doesn't make your losses any better or easier ... but you guys should feel confident that it's not your fault. The loss of either one of you would be a great loss for the leo community.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Marcia,

I'm so sorry for your losses. Don't blame yourself, it's not your fault.

 

[PaulSage]

It was a Ranco. The rack with the afflicted babies read 120-123*F even though the thermostat read 92. I hit the probe with the temp gun, and that was 120*.

I checked the adult racks to be safe (even though it would have been safer if I would check my racks more routinely, because obviously I don't). One of the adult's thermostats is fucked too. They were at 106* even though the thermostat was set to 93. I've never had a problem with Rancos until now--at least not that I've noticed anyway.

Fuck you, Ranco.

There were 39 geckos in that rack. I had already euthanized five yesterday. After tearing shit apart to swap thermostats, I started going by the babies one by one to assess their condition. Somewhere in there I ordered 10 new Herpstats from The Bean Farm.

I had to euthanize two more.

Only 12 babies of the original 39 are not currently showing any symptoms.

I'm going to post some pictures of the babies here in a little while just to show you guys why I was thinking it was MBD.

Oh yeah, fortunately (for my sanity) my mom & brother came over to help me.

I'm really going to miss them when I move.



Marcia, I'm so sorry for what happened and what you're going through, but I'm glad that you posted this. Being the idiot I am, I would not have thought that temperatures could have been causing this to happen to my geckos. I was sure it was MBD. At least now I know.

Fuck.

 

[Jeanne]

Oh Man Paul, this really bites the big one! I am so sorry for both of you! It is a reality check for all of us, we have to all realize that we can't be too careful! I am going to double check my rack temperature when I get home! (It feels soooo weird to say rack, not racks )

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I now have 9 dead and about 12 more that will most likely have to be put down. I can't even bring myself to look in the shoe boxes right now to check the status of the really bad ones.

To top things off, my husband is out of town on business, and my A/C went out again last evening. It's fucking 91 degrees already outside and it's only 7:30 AM, and supposed to get in the 100's again today. My house is 78 degrees right now, but if I can't get anyone out here to fix it for a couple of days, I don't know what I'm going to do. Last time, my husband took the incubators to work with him.

I am here all alone, honestly feel like I'm going to have a meltdown.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I was able to get someone out here to look at the A/C unit after breaking down and crying over the phone. The entire compressor/condenser unit needs replaced, which I suspected after it failed last year and already once 6 weeks ago. Fortunately, the company has them in stock, and will be able to replace it by this afternoon.

I called my friend Daniel, and he offered to come over and help me today, and if need be will take my incubators to his place where it's cool. Fortunately, he doesn't have to go to work until late this afternoon. The temperatures are supposed to be in the 100-108 degree range for the next few days here.

Thank God for small favors. At this point it's hard to find anything positive. My husband may be home late tonight, so I hope he won't go ballistic. I may not even tell him what's been going on the past few days.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

Oh Man Paul, this really bites the big one! I am so sorry for both of you! It is a reality check for all of us, we have to all realize that we can't be too careful! I am going to double check my rack temperature when I get home! (It feels soooo weird to say rack, not racks )

So true!

Marcia-

OMG That really sucks! Our A/C was out for a month, but the temps outside never got above 92. I would have move out if it got as hot as you're talking. Things will work out. (((Hugs)))

 

[PaulSage]

I was able to get someone out here to look at the A/C unit after breaking down and crying over the phone. The entire compressor/condenser unit needs replaced, which I suspected after it failed last year and already once 6 weeks ago. Fortunately, the company has them in stock, and will be able to replace it by this afternoon.

I called my friend Daniel, and he offered to come over and help me today, and if need be will take my incubators to his place where it's cool. Fortunately, he doesn't have to go to work until late this afternoon. The temperatures are supposed to be in the 100-108 degree range for the next few days here.

Thank God for small favors. At this point it's hard to find anything positive. My husband may be home late tonight, so I hope he won't go ballistic. I may not even tell him what's been going on the past few days.

Marcia I'm so glad you were able to get the A/C repair lined up for this afternoon. I'd give that repairman a big hug after he gets the new one installed. ...On second thought, he'd probably be all gross & sweaty and that might be kind of icky; so maybe just a pat on the head then.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have A/C now... $2,236 later. I opted for a ton bigger, high efficiency unit. It's now 2 degrees cooler in the house. I actually DID hug the guy, and he was really sweaty. I didn't care.

I've been awake since about 3:30 this morning after only 3 hours of fitful sleep, so I think I'll go try and get some rest for awhile before I start re-checking the affected babies , and to see if there are even more developing symptoms. Maybe when I wake up it will all just have been a very bad dream.

 

[PaulSage]

I love you Marcia.

Jeremy and I were talking about how you NEVER ONCE complained about your own personal discomfort from the heat and no A/C. You never even mentioned it. You were so worried about you geckos that I wonder if you even noticed how hot you were. You never cease to amaze me.

 

[Mel&Keith]

Wow, what a terrible situation. I'm so sorry you guys are having to go though all that heartache. I'm glad you posted this Marsha. We went and checked our new hatchling rack and we realized that it runs a lot hotter than the other racks that are running on the same controller. I had turned the the thermostat down just in case (thank goodness) and the tubs are 96 on the hot end while the tubs in the other baby racks are 84 in the hot end. We could have easily been in the same situation. I'm going to order another controller for the new rack tonight. So if it makes you guys feel any better, you've saved our babies from discomfort. Who knows how long it would have been before I noticed the temperature difference.

*GIANT hugs*