Any Advice - Leo fading fast (sorry for long post)

[Khrysty]

could this just be a case of a pickey baby?

That's what I'm wondering, actually. It's possible that offering a variety of foods might help perk the appetite.

 

[T-ReXx]

That gecko is underweight, but not in nearly as bad shape as I expected. Since your vet did not run a fecal I'd say he has no idea what he's doing and stop all medications immediately, they can do more harm than good if theres nothing actually there to treat.

What I would do is keep him warm (95F hot spot) in a small, sterile setup(paper towel, water dish, and hide box only). I would try several different feeders(mealworms, small super worms, roaches, crickets, silkworms, pheonix worms, wax worms, etc) and see if it perks any interest. I would also feed slurry (recipe is a sticky on this site) if there is no eating and also mist the cage lightly once a day to prevent dehydration. He's not in great shape, but if it is just a case of the animal being underweight, dehydrated and picky I think it can be saved. I really don't think your vet knows as much about reptiles as he wants you to think he does.

Good luck.

 

[Missinova]

Thanks for the responses...

There is a reptile expo here tomorrow, so I was planning on going over anyways. I hope to find some different feeders to try. I put 10 tiny mealworms in a dish in there tonight, and one cricket which I plucked the legs off of, he was watching the cricket, but did not attempt to hunt it, so I left it in there and came out and closed the door... Hopefully he will come around. I'll go check again before I go to bed, and if the cricket is still there, I'll take it out. It hasn't been easy to find anything for a gecko around here... crickets and mealworms are all I've been able to find, so I hope to see more at the expo. Maybe I'll find reptiaid over there as well.

I'll set up our little plastic carrier enclosure for him, I know his coconut hide will fit in one side of it. Maybe I can just keep the little enclosure inside of his big enclosure... I'm worried about keeping it warm anywhere else. I'll have to pick up the rest of the ingredients for the slurry tomorrow.

I really appreciate your suggestions... I'm disappointed that you feel the vet didn't make the right decisions... we don't have many options around here, and I travelled pretty far to go see him.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Your vet may not have had much of a choice since you couldn't bring a stool sample, BUT in that case of do no harm, he aught to have done nothing if he didn't suspect the lil one was sick. the overuse of antibiotics hs been well documented as far as causing an antibiotic resistance when you actually need it, and I was unaware that prophylactic deworming in leos can do more harm than good. I routinely deworm my dogs with out proven evidence thru a fecal, but I know what to look for when I suspect a parasite might be present. It is very difficult to find a good herp vet, esp. for new owners that are unsure themselves but you can take what the majority of the members here such as T-reXX says to the bank. They are VERY knowledgeable. I'm sure you are aware, don't leave the cricket in too long with your lil one. They can nibble at your gecko causing him more stress, and if he was interested by the movement maybe small super worms might be a good way to go as they're more active than mealies imo. I have found bait shops offer a good variety of wormies in small quantities just for a trial and error kinda thing.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Ted, my sentiments exactly, thank you. It's pretty much what I said in my previous post.

Missinova, my vet is 2+ hours away, so I know how hard it is to find a good one. There are other decent ones closer, well known and respected, however I would rather go to the one I have been most satisfied with. Here is the link for Reptaid http://reptaid.com/ I have used this many times for a variety of species with good results. Any adult we take in for rehab gets it the first 3 days just to make sure it begins eating and pooping right away. It's not the same stuff as reptiaid that's available in some retail outlets.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Thank you for the clarification Laney. I was going by what I thought I had seen Khrysty post in her rehab thread.

 

[Khrysty]

Thank you for the clarification Laney. I was going by what I thought I had seen Khrysty post in her rehab thread.

We use "Reptaid" here, produced by Chameleons Northwest, and you can get it at the link above. It is different than "Repta-Aid," available at most pet stores, and made by Flukers. We have never used the Flukers version, but the Chameleons Northwest Reptaid has done wonders for the animals we've cared for.

 

[Missinova]

Thank you all so much for you input. I really appreciate it.

I ordered the Reptaid last night. There was only one shipment method to Canada, so hopefully it won't take that long.

I feel a little better now that you say he doesn't look as bad as you thought he would.

Last night I went to check on him to take out the cricket, and the cricket was gone. All 10 mealworms are still there though as of this morning.

I'm going to ask around at the expo regarding herp vets, I'm sure a name or two might come up.

 

[Khrysty]

Thank you all so much for you input. I really appreciate it.

I ordered the Reptaid last night. There was only one shipment method to Canada, so hopefully it won't take that long.

I feel a little better now that you say he doesn't look as bad as you thought he would.

Last night I went to check on him to take out the cricket, and the cricket was gone. All 10 mealworms are still there though as of this morning.

I'm going to ask around at the expo regarding herp vets, I'm sure a name or two might come up.

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[T-ReXx]

Glad to hear he took something! That's a very good sign, the biggest problem I'd say is simple malnutrition, and if he's taking a little food he's probably feeling a bit better.

I'll tell you exactly why giving an reptile de wormer without there actually being a diagnosis of parasites is a bad idea. For one thing, not all parasites are killed by all de wormers. You can give all the panacur you want and it's not going to do anything to affect some species. Secondly, medication is stressful on reptiles. De wormers are basically poisons, and are rough on the animal regardless, so if the animal isn't infested you end up giving a medication that may do nothing to solve the problem and still gives all the risks of harming an animal with an already surpressed system. Not to mention the stress involved in the physical medicating of the animal. And all that is assuming the animal was correctly dosed in the first place, a lot of vets who don't necessarily know what they're doing with herps but want to seem like they do will "guesstimate" on dosages. In a gecko so small that kind of thing can be fatal. It's like the old school practice of just giving reptiles Baytril to treat just about anything; it's a harsh medication that may do nothing to treat the actual issue.
I'm sure at the expo you should be able to find a line up on a reliable vet. Also, even if you can't get a fecal sample, most vets can get one simply by doing a cloacal swab. Keep trying and don't give up on the little guy yet.

 

[Missinova]

I moved him into the small plastic terrarium with a hut and waterdish, just lined with papertowell. I made the slurry and gave him about .2mls this morning. So far he has kept it down. I may try to feed him a super or butterworm tonight to see if he has any interest.

I went to the expo, but it was really small... only about 10 tables... I did find some butterworms and superworms though... I asked about dubai beetles, and found out they are illegal here in Canada, and it looks like importing butterworms are going to be stopped soon as well...

So that was disappointing. It was really busy and I didn't get a chance to talk too much to any vendors... So I didn't find any info about actual herp vets... But I did find some info about a local herp group that should offer some help in that area.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Herp groups are a good place to start. They always seem to have the inside track to the info that is hard to find. Sorry the show seemed a bit of a disappointment. Good taht he ate about 2 ml of the slurry, be careful over feeding him, take it slow. I don't know that I would feed him more tonight, but if you do just like 1 worm. Sometimes it helps to keep him a little hungry, it will keep him interested in the food more I think. The slurry should boost him up a bit so the next feeding he should be a bit more enthuiastic as he regains his strength.

Keep up the good work

 

[Missinova]

I didn't give him 2mls of slurry... 0.2mls. The dropper I have only goes to 1ml when its full...

Anyways, he ate one small cricket last night, I put two in there, and he only ate the one, and it was when I first put them in. The poo he made was pretty much brown liquid and only a drop... I suspect that was just left over from the one day dose of antibiotics/de worming.

He took about 0.5mls of slurry this morning - he won't take it when I put it on his nose.. he just wipes it off - but if i get him to bite the end, he will hang on and swallow as I let a drop out at a time.... I will try again with another feeder tonight.

I don't think he has gotten any worse since Friday... So hopefully I can get him turned around.

 

[Dog Shrink]

He's eating more so that's a step in the right direction. Have you offered any other insects aside of the lil crickets since he ate them?

 

[Missinova]

I have tried... I tried mealworms (wouldn't touch them), and I tried a super in there yesterday, but he wouldn't even look at it.

It would seem he would rather hunt in private... He won't hunt if I remove his hide. If I can get a cricket to go into his hide right away, he may eat it, but he won't come out of his hide to hunt. And If I keep trying to get a feeder to go into the hide, he ignores them because I think he knows I'm there.

He won't feed from the tongs at all, again because I think he is too aware of my presence? I haven't left the crickets in all night, but I'm thinking maybe we should, and then take them out in the morning if they are still there. I'm only talking one or two, just to see if that makes a difference... Is it really that bad to leave the crickets in over night? I don't want them to harm the little guy, but if he would eat when we are asleep, I would try it. I've left meal worms in there, but he won't go near them....

The only thing I've seen him voluntarily eat is a cricket.

 

[Jordan]

no its not too bad to leave a cricket or two in over night. But be sure to check in the morning, hopefully he will have eaten them.

Are you sure he's not eating any mealworms? have you tried counting before going to bed and then when you wake up?
because some of mine i think arent eating until i count the mealworms then realise actually there is a lot less lol. i know its sort of a silly thing to say as you probably know if hes eating any or not but sometimes its hard to tell without actually counting exactly.

 

[Missinova]

Yeah, I counted the mealworms first, and didn't put a whole lot in there, and the same number was there in the morning...

 

[Dog Shrink]

I wouldn't be inclined to leave crickets in there over night esp. small pinheads that are ravenous babies BUT if you do, I would make sure to leave some food in there for the crickets like orange cubes or a piece of apple wedge just to make sure they don't nibble your leo and stress him out. I have read threads from many of the more experienced keepers on this forum and elsewhere on the web that suggest against leaving crickets with your leo but if you provide the food hopefully it will be ok. Sorry to go agasint you on this ne Jordan, you're usually the man but it's just what I've read.

 

[Jordan]

haha thats fine, i suppose we must have been fed different info. Ive always found one night not a problem, but i wouldnt leave crickets in longer than that.
And if i can just go against you on something Kel haha; if you do leave food in for the crickets make sure it isnt fruit or veg, becuase im sure ive read that its bad for your leo( something like they cant digest it or something, i dunno, vague memory of something ive read), and if its in the cage then he may nibble at it too. actually i suppose any food for the crickets is in danger of being eaten by the leo. That would be a bit weird if he didnt eat mealworms but DID eat cricket food, maybe a leo with a soft spot for live food ? haha.

 

[Khrysty]

haha thats fine, i suppose we must have been fed different info. Ive always found one night not a problem, but i wouldnt leave crickets in longer than that.
And if i can just go against you on something Kel haha; if you do leave food in for the crickets make sure it isnt fruit or veg, becuase im sure ive read that its bad for your leo( something like they cant digest it or something, i dunno, vague memory of something ive read), and if its in the cage then he may nibble at it too. actually i suppose any food for the crickets is in danger of being eaten by the leo. That would be a bit weird if he didnt eat mealworms but DID eat cricket food, maybe a leo with a soft spot for live food ? haha.

I always leave a bit of carrot or apple in when i feed crickets. None of my geckos have ever eaten it. They're not attracted to it, as they don't recognize it as prey.