Anyone seen this guy?

[RogueMonkey]

http://www.crestedgecko.com, Just wondering I was looking at videos on youtube and came accross a few of his. I am amazed at how little he places in the tank for the geckos. 1 hide 1 water dish and thats really it. I mean I understand when breeding at that level you try to cut costs but wow. The containers look really small to for an adult gecko.

 

[Pudgsr]

Garrick is one of the top leopard gecko breeders in the world. He knows what be is doing!!

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

What would you do differently? I do not know which tub/cage you are talking about in particular but sanitation and preference also play a big role in how breeders with massive collections manage their animals. I think if you watch videos of more "big" breeders you will see some have less than that too. I personally have most of mine in their tub with 1 hide, water dish, and worm dish...using shelf liner and paper towel as substrate.

 

[Dimidiata]

Wouldnt that have some negetive effect on the animals overall contentness though? I understand cutting costs to fit more animals but it just seems a little sparse. Im not trying to spark argument or flames but when you look at it from us general keepers view, we are on here getting hamared with the proper way to set up their tanks, with all the hides and appropriate spaces and such, but then we see the breeders with simple set ups and its kind of a shock.

That is unless these are just breeding enclosures.

 

[ChristinaJ]

They have heat, a hide, water, and food/vitamins/calcium. Geckos don't need an elaborate setup to be happy, I keep mine pretty much the exact same way and mine are perfectly content. In all honestly, using substrate such as sand is terrible for the geckos, and yea all that decorations may make a tank look pretty but it's more for the owners visual than the animals. All they care about is having what they need, and Garrick as well as many other breeders certainly make sure of that.

 

[Dimidiata]

I thought the purpose of the decor, or atleast in my case, was to provide the animal with enviromental enrichment, aswell as placs to climb and perch. I wouldnt say something is happy having only what it needs. That statment seems a tad off.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I thought the purpose of the decor, or atleast in my case, was to provide the animal with enviromental enrichment, aswell as placs to climb and perch. I wouldnt say something is happy having only what it needs. That statment seems a tad off.

Well I wouldn't say something is happy in a cage regardless. Its a battle which can be fought in circles. Decor tends to be more for the owners. They don't need elaborately colored plants or fancy dishes...neither of which are something you will find regularly in their environment. You have to remember that 99% of all geckos you see housed are cb/ch and have no comparison to miss something from their natural habitat...and most likely come from cb/ch animals going back MANY generations.

Do you think any animal (non domesticated) is happy regardless of what you do for them? I think the security of knowing they have a safe hiding spot with continual supply of food and water in a thermo regulated environment makes them happy. They are a solitary species which simply lives each day of their life trying to ensure they get what they need for the next day of survival. They don't stop to "play" in the wild or do anything for enrichment. They are programmed purely to survive.

That being said if you have the space, money, time, and desire to provide an elaborate set up, I think that's good to do as well. I by no means am implying that they belong in tubs and not aquariums with plants and decor...but I also don't feel that it is needed for the animals happiness.

 

[Dimidiata]

Well thats sad and depressing. Sooooo is it being selfish or such too keep the decor in their tanks, do they not want it there or do they simply not care? Yes, we can argue that any nondomesticated animal hasnt been exsposed to natural. Hell, we can say that Natural ends the minute the animal is no longer in its wild habitat. Thats a quick and easy way to end the discussion. There is no way for me to prove that these guys perffer the ability to climp around, over not having any room to. And i certainly cant prove that they like to pick out wich hide they feel more secure or comfortable in as opposed to being provided with on shack. This much is true, i cant argue those facts thus i give. Its a depressing thought that all they need to be happy is food, a hut and temps.

 

[abrahamavelar]

I feel the same way, I dont wanna offend anyone but I hate seen ppl keep tneir geckos in tubs and racks where you cant even sit back relax and enjoy the guy wiyh out desturbing it, IMO whats the point of keeping it as a pet if its gonna be stuck in a tub stacked up on a rack, IMO wit fish tanks we try to mimic their enviroment or get them to feel comfortable to have a happy and better life and with geckos I think it should be the same

 

[tiedxupxinxknots]

I feel the same way, I dont wanna offend anyone but I hate seen ppl keep tneir geckos in tubs and racks where you cant even sit back relax and enjoy the guy wiyh out desturbing it, IMO whats the point of keeping it as a pet if its gonna be stuck in a tub stacked up on a rack, IMO wit fish tanks we try to mimic their enviroment or get them to feel comfortable to have a happy and better life and with geckos I think it should be the same

These arent cats and dogs, people dont really understand what is and isnt ethical when it comes to geckos. A gecko doesnt have fun in the wild, and these captive bred animals arent much different. Like Travis was saying, most things on a gecko's mind is surviving. If those geckos were suffering from stress, depression, etc then they would stop eating but they still do because they mainly want to thrive. Now im not saying that a shoe box sized container is the best option, but its kinda like saying people only need a house not a mansion.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I feel the same way, I dont wanna offend anyone but I hate seen ppl keep tneir geckos in tubs and racks where you cant even sit back relax and enjoy the guy wiyh out desturbing it, IMO whats the point of keeping it as a pet if its gonna be stuck in a tub stacked up on a rack, IMO wit fish tanks we try to mimic their enviroment or get them to feel comfortable to have a happy and better life and with geckos I think it should be the same

I completely see and understand where you are coming from. However, you mentioned more reasons why an aquarium is for the person not the animal. Trying to mimic their environment is not sold at a chain store. If your going to mimic their environment then you should also be controlling light cycles, barometric pressures, humidity, temperatures (accurate to their environment, not an average and maintain that), and prey items since these are FAR more important things to mimic their natural environment than plants and rocks in a glass box.

No prey animal wants to be watched...that alone can cause more stress (not saying don't look at your gecko or house them in aquariums, but they MAY feel less secure since EVERYTHING has visual access to them). Whats the point of keeping a pet if its going to be stuck in a glass box? I am not attacking you or anyone else, just simply stating that this is a suggestive argument in which their is never going to be an agreement because we are all assuming what makes them happy. Unless we do research on hormone levels with environmental changes then we are using human emotions to evaluate a reptiles emotions.

I have many animals which I have in decorated aquariums and the whole shebang. I don't personally feel like they are "happier" or anything when compared to ones kept in tubs. My whole point is that tubs or aquariums...I don't think the geckos (in general...so no one says "I have a gecko that...") are any more/less happy with a plant and a rock hide instead of a cheaper hide.

Cheers :2thumbsup:

 

[katie_]

I would agree that a gecko is more of an intinctual animal rather than an emotional one.
I like to decorate my enlosures and give them names, but I humanize my pets.

 

[Big Red One]

A leopard gecko will be 'fine' as log as it is fed/watered and heated, plus it's conditions are clean.
Tubs achieve this.

However, I have noticed from personal experience that animals kept in tub setups tend to be 'skittier'. I feel that this may be down to the disturbance we make when accessing the tubs as it tends to be from above, not usually a position that geckos feel really comfortable with sensing something approaching.

In my experience animals in glass fronted vivs with solid backs and sides are less startled by someone approaching and tend to calm down more easily than those kept in tubs, particularly opaque ones.

Just my view.

Back to are tubs 'good', well I'd choose correct heat/food/supplementation levels in a clean environment any day of the week over a nicely decorated, bigger environment that may not be providing these things.
I'm sure a larger setup with varying nooks and crannies etc will replicate a 'wild' setup and be used fully by the leos. If you can provide this and keep it heated and clean to the same extent, I'm all for it.....

 

[J&K's Lemy]

My leos are in the "glass boxes" this weekend I am buying a UVB so I can add some safe plants Dracaenas
I wanted Mexican rock figs couldn't find any

I feel that the plants will add more hiding areas and will freshen the air inside the tank
I think giving my geckos a natural source of oxgen from plants is a safe way of giving them a little bit of the outside habitat
can't really give them the full experense but that would come with all the risk that being wild
yes the plants have a visual effect the tank will be easier to look at lol
but for me that is becouse I feel that the geckos will be better off that way

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I honestly don't think a shrub/small plant will actually be providing much fresh O2. At the rate which air is circulated through the aquarium I don't see the plants providing much "fresh" O2. Not saying it wont look nice or add an aroma to the cage (which the gecko may or may not like). I am not knocking your idea at all, just playing devils advocate. I like the look of real plants and all, but I have a black thumb so I wouldn't eve try it in a leo cage. It was hard enough for me when I was breeding Chameleons.

Just so you know some species of Dracaenas are actually toxic to animals. Also like I was saying about outside habitat...unless its close (pertaining to some of the environment specific factors listed in my previous post) to their native country then it is not "natural" for them anyway.

 

[abrahamavelar]

These arent cats and dogs, people dont really understand what is and isnt ethical when it comes to geckos. A gecko doesnt have fun in the wild, and these captive bred animals arent much different. Like Travis was saying, most things on a gecko's mind is surviving. If those geckos were suffering from stress, depression, etc then they would stop eating but they still do because they mainly want to thrive. Now im not saying that a shoe box sized container is the best option, but its kinda like saying people only need a house not a mansion.

Yeah I understand that but imo wats the point of havin an animal in a plastic tub that u can just sit and enjoy watching, plus wat gets.me goin is that ppl say they atleast need a ten gallon tank per adult and ive seen lots of videos of ppls racks and they are sho sized and in my point of view if u dont have tubs 10 gallon or bigger they shoudnt keep them in tubs

 

[abrahamavelar]

I completely see and understand where you are coming from. However, you mentioned more reasons why an aquarium is for the person not the animal. Trying to mimic their environment is not sold at a chain store. If your going to mimic their environment then you should also be controlling light cycles, barometric pressures, humidity, temperatures (accurate to their environment, not an average and maintain that), and prey items since these are FAR more important things to mimic their natural environment than plants and rocks in a glass box.

No prey animal wants to be watched...that alone can cause more stress (not saying don't look at your gecko or house them in aquariums, but they MAY feel less secure since EVERYTHING has visual access to them). Whats the point of keeping a pet if its going to be stuck in a glass box? I am not attacking you or anyone else, just simply stating that this is a suggestive argument in which their is never going to be an agreement because we are all assuming what makes them happy. Unless we do research on hormone levels with environmental changes then we are using human emotions to evaluate a reptiles emotions.

I have many animals which I have in decorated aquariums and the whole shebang. I don't personally feel like they are "happier" or anything when compared to ones kept in tubs. My whole point is that tubs or aquariums...I don't think the geckos (in general...so no one says "I have a gecko that...") are any more/less happy with a plant and a rock hide instead of a cheaper hide.

Cheers :2thumbsup:

yeah i understand that but i still if you cant atleast hav e enough room or $ to get their mimimum requirements for a long healthy happy life you shouldnt have more that u cant afford, my point being is that i was told by a breeder here in my area that they atleast need a ten gallon per adult and 3 hides war humid and cold and un those tubs unless they are bigger they cant acomodate that

I would agree that a gecko is more of an intinctual animal rather than an emotional one.
I like to decorate my enlosures and give them names, but I humanize my pets.

exactly i totally agree

A leopard gecko will be 'fine' as log as it is fed/watered and heated, plus it's conditions are clean.
Tubs achieve this.

However, I have noticed from personal experience that animals kept in tub setups tend to be 'skittier'. I feel that this may be down to the disturbance we make when accessing the tubs as it tends to be from above, not usually a position that geckos feel really comfortable with sensing something approaching.

In my experience animals in glass fronted vivs with solid backs and sides are less startled by someone approaching and tend to calm down more easily than those kept in tubs, particularly opaque ones.

Just my view.

Back to are tubs 'good', well I'd choose correct heat/food/supplementation levels in a clean environment any day of the week over a nicely decorated, bigger environment that may not be providing these things.
I'm sure a larger setup with varying nooks and crannies etc will replicate a 'wild' setup and be used fully by the leos. If you can provide this and keep it heated and clean to the same extent, I'm all for it.....

exactly by instinct any animal will try to survive but its like dogs they can be kept in a kennel for along time if u give them food and water daily but its not the best way to keep them (if i made any sence)

and i totally agree with (well I'd choose correct heat/food/supplementation levels in a clean environment any day of the week over a nicely decorated, bigger environment that may not be providing these things.) but u could provide that in a ten gallon tank aswell, keeping a pet its hard work but u get the awesome reward of knowing ur pet its healthy happy and will live for a long time

 

[abrahamavelar]

and i dont mean to offend any one that is just my point of view

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Yeah I understand that but imo wats the point of havin an animal in a plastic tub that u can just sit and enjoy watching, plus wat gets.me goin is that ppl say they atleast need a ten gallon tank per adult and ive seen lots of videos of ppls racks and they are sho sized and in my point of view if u dont have tubs 10 gallon or bigger they shoudnt keep them in tubs

I agree that no matter what they are housed in they should have X amount of floor space. By no means am I saying people do not house geckos in too small of tubs in a rack...but same can be said for aquariums. By 10 gal it is not a volume measurement since they are not utilizing all of the vertical space in a 10g aquarium...but rather the floor space is whats being measured. Using the 10g per gecko "rule", then 2 geckos can be housed in a 20g tank right? Well is that a 20L or 20H/D? Both are 20g but one has much more usable space for the animals. This is why the tubs can be smaller in depth but still provide the same amount of floor/living space required for the geckos. This is how the same quality of life can be provided in a much more condensed manner making it more economical and manageable for the breeder. You just have to always keep in mind, what you see on a video of someones husbandry does not mean that it is how we ALL do it or advocate their techniques. It all boils down to the individual owners and their preferred methods of husbandry. TUBS are not the issue, its bad owners. Look around on CL for a day and look at the quality of some of those animals...most are kept in Aquariums.

I dont think my geckos look unhappy;

They look to be in good health as well (not too fat from lack of exercise but yet eats and maintains good body weight)

Trust me I know where you are coming from in this debate, but to me the problem is individuals not tubs vs glass.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I don't know Travis, they look a little sad….send those over to me and I'll cheer them up in my huge 48 tub rack! LOL!