Ask the Breeder!!!!

[Retribution Reptiles]

OK so I've been super bored recently and thought this would be something pretty interesting and fun to do. So just like the title suggest Ask the Breeder. Any questions that you have regarding morph combos and genetics.

 

[JordanAng420]

Here's one I've been thinking about lately...what's the story behind wild caught leopard geckos? Are the still around?

 

[Jade Icing]

Well here is a bit of a silly one. Since I am not breeding I want each of my leos to stand out. I have a high yellow and a mack snow. I plan on adding 2-3 leos this year and am trying to figure what morph would be very different than them but it seems overwhelming. Can you suggest some morphs?

 

[LZRDGRL]

first-time female breeders dying after egg-laying?

Okay, I have a difficult one: Is there any research/are there any statistics about female first-time breeders dying after egg laying (while being sufficiently supplemented, and without having diseases, being emaciated, bullied, or egg-bound)? Do you as a breeder have any hypotheses about this?

I lost TWO of my favorite female breeders last month and have absolutely no idea why. Both had VERY fat tails before breeding and were about 2 years old. Both were first-time mothers. Twiglet had laid two eggs and died when her two healthy babies hatched. Her tail had just grown a little bit thinner, and I saw a tiny spot of blood in her stool the week she died. She had no parasites, and her mate, Alex, is healthy. The photo was taken shortly after she had laid her eggs, so her body was considerably thinner than before. She used to be a super healthy gecko. Did egg-laying damage her inner organs and cause a prolapse/hemorrhage?

Penny Lane was my fattest gecko ever. I mated her with Lester in December. On the picture, you see her gravid with her first clutch of eggs. She laid four good eggs, then crawled into her coco nut dome and died quietly. The strange thing is, her first two eggs are HUGE, and her second two eggs are rather small. Does this point to a decline of nutrients or weakening of the body?

How the heck could this have happened? All my other gravid females are still well and laying eggs, and all the babies are doing fine. Penny Lane's first clutch will hatch in the first week of February, so I hope I get some really nice High Contrast Trempers that look like her.

If you know of any published research, I would be glad to add it to my collection of research articles. If you just speak from experience, that would help a lot already.

Thanks!

Chrissy

 

[LZRDGRL]

Here's one I've been thinking about lately...what's the story behind wild caught leopard geckos? Are the still around?

Yes, they are around. I got one (wild-caught Montane; looked like this when I got her; looks like this now), but it was from a guy who is banned from the forum, and I wasn't even allowed to mention his name, so I have no idea how he got the ones he sold, and how he dealt with the legality of import. Most wild-caught bloodline geckos you can buy in the US nowadays are just the descendants of real wild-caught ones. I have two from mine so far (F1 generation), a Mack Snow and a Normal, but nobody ever wanted to buy them when I went to shows, or from my website. So either there's not a very high demand, or people just want the real wild-caught ones for outcrossing (?). They are laying eggs right now, so soon I will have the F2 generation babies and will see if they sell at shows. I guess since they look exactly like lower-grade pet store Normals, one cannot ask a much higher price for them. I used the original one for outcrossing to a Mack Snow Enigma male, and got a pretty asymetrical MS Enigma (Carcassonne). The second Enigma I got (Indigo) has a bad Enigma syndrome that started when she was one year old, although the father didn't have it, so I don't know in how far out-crossing works. I bred Indigo to a Bell Enigma male, and she had three MS het Bell Enigma daughters with light to moderate Enigma syndrome, and one MS daughter (Screamer) of a strange pastel color, which doesn't look like the wild-caught original any more.

I would be interested in reports of people who had success with outcrossing (avoiding the Engima syndrome).

Chrissy

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Very interesting research articles, Chrissy

 

[LZRDGRL]

Very interesting research articles, Chrissy

Thank you! I'm desperately looking for research about the Enigma syndrome. If anybody has found (or written) one, please let me know :main_yes:

Chrissy

 

[DragonBeards]

I have one. What morphs of all white leos are there out there? And I don't mean white with some yellow on it, but all white (and maybe a little grey. Does this make sense?). Not albino either, think dark eyes. There has to be some out there, right? Are there any issues related to these geckos? How expensive are they?

Reason I ask is, I plan on getting a leo sometime in the future (farther future, after I have a job of my own) and really like the look of the white geckos. But I know absolutely nothing about morphs, so I wouldn't know what I was looking for.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

@ Maia ~ From my understanding there are some people in Europe that still get w/c Leopard geckos. I honestly don't know each countries regulations of how legal it is for them to obtain w/c Leopard Geckos. I do know that it is 100% against the law to have any w/c leopard gecko imported into the US. We can obtain F1's from any breeder that we wish but I believe the regulations were implimented due to trade embargo's with the middle east. I also believe that w/o being able to obtain w/c animals it will only hurt the Leopard Gecko market as to slim to none chances of new morphs being able to be discovered. With that being said we are highly dependant upon our European brothers and sisters to do what they can in finding new mutations.

@ Jade Icing ~ You know this is a very subjective topic. It really depends upon what you like. I know that's kind of a copout to the question but that's really the best answer that I would be able to give. You do have many different options on which way you can go with having a Normal and a Mack Snow. Might I suggest possibly making a Blood Snow. It's a project that has potential of getting visuals within the first 2-3 years but could have stunning results at years 5-7. It's pretty much a Cremesicle but adding iin the Blood Hypo from JMG you could make the best Cremesicles out there with that cross though. There are 2 catches with this you would have to drop some serious cash on a top of the line Blood Hypo and you have the possibility to create super snows. For that project I would use a Gem snow.

@Chrissy ~ Thanks for the question it's good to hear from you. First off I'm sorry to hear about your losses. I'm not an exotic medical expert by any stretch of the imagination but I think you're in the right area of your thinking. It sounds as if the egg laying could have damaged something internally and she just bled out. The only sure fire way of knowing the answer would have been to have a necropsy done. Unfortunately these are just things that we as breeders have to just be ready for when doing this. It's very cold to say this but we are dealing with live animals and sometimes we can't control everything and geckos just die.


@Chrissy ~ I look at the Enigma Syndrome the same was as I look at the Spider trait in ball pythons. They make some of the most awesome crosses but no amount of outcrossing is going to correct this issue. Many people have done breeding experiments trying to reduce the amount of spinning and other issues and it's very random. I know some people are working with crossing the engima with the White and Yellow morph to see if that will be a "cure". I don't believe that this will give any corrections. I wish that the Leopard Gecko community would be more like the Ball Python in the respect that just keep working with the Enigmas regardless of the issue but the Leo community is a bunch of softies and it will never happen.


@ DragonBeards ~ Almost anything that has Blizzard in it will result in a very high white gecko. Blizzard Snows and Blizzard Super Snows are going to give you the best results of getting that white gecko without the red eyes. But keep in mind that the Blizzard trait has variying degrees of color change. You can get greyish blizzards, a slight hue of yellow blizzards, and very white blizzards. There really isn't anyway to guarantee what will hatch out. I would stay away from putting the blizzard with the Murphys Patternless gene as well or else you will get some very high yellow geckos as well.



As a reminder these are all just my opinions regarding these questions. I did do some minor research regarding the questions but for the most part these are just opinions of one person. I strongly suggest taking what I stated with the info you may or may not have and forming your own opinion on the matters talked about above.

 

[toph427]

snow group

I had a question or two also...I love the post idea though! I was thinking about a bold stripe/bold stripe snow project this year. I was thinking about picking up a pair of mack snows at the end of this month at Repticon Atlanta. Would a pair of bold stripe snows create snows, super snows, and bold stripe snows?? I really wanna have a nice mack snow/BS snow project, what would you recommend for a good 1.2 or 1.3 group?

 

[acpart]

Here's something I've been wondering about: Is there any pattern of first time breeders laying huge numbers of eggs their first season and then producing relatively few eggs after that? Or do geckos that lay a greater or lesser amount of eggs continue that trend, or is it random?

Aliza

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

@Toph427 ~ Yeah buddy....talking some bold stripe snows. pretty much on how it would break down with bold stripe mack snows you would get Bold Stripes, Bold stripe Snows, and Super Snows. I was going to work on this project myself but the negative aspect of using Mack Snows is the dreaded Super Snow. So I have since removed that project from my to do list and switched it over to Gem Snows. I personaly love Gems in the matter of doing all kinds of crazy cool line breeding you can do with them. Down side is that they are pretty rare to get your hands on them.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

@aliza ~ From my findings thus far, Ive had it both ways. Last year I had 2 females that didn't lay very many eggs if any at all. But then I had 3 females drop me the same or more eggs. Granted my findings are only off of 2 years of breeding so I don't believe that after 2 years I could give you solid evidence to go either way.

 

[toph427]

Yea i don't think gem snows are in my budget. But for a project like this do you think a good group would just be a pair of BS mack snows, anything else you might suggest throwing in the mix, not necessarily just for Bold stripes, but anything that would produce some nice offspring with snows?

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

@Toph427 ~ Hmmm crosses with mack snows. Well I guess that all depends. What direction and what genetics do you like?

 

[toph427]

Like I said, the bold stripes for sure, maybe throw an enigma in make some mack snow enigmas, or make it a little longer of a project for mack raptor.

 

[toph427]

Honestly I'm gonna probably keep it simple and just pick up a pair of mack bold stripes and just go from there. But I really appreciate all of the help and really like the idea for this thread!

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

@Toph427 ~ Well maybe I could suggest trying to make some Redstripe Snows? That would be a good line breeding project to try. I was thinking about doing that cross but had to put it on the back burner for a while. Got too many new things to play with and work out genetics on LOL

 

[toph427]

Lol yea that sounds like a really cool project. Ill let you what I end up doing with the snows, I also have a firewater group I'm working on...as of now just a pair I got from Albey but am trying to find another female to throw in the group.

 

[x.shell.x]

I have a question. What is the biggest thing a new breeder should to be aware of ?

I wont be breeding mine this year but am thinking it could be a poss for next year. I know there would be no money in it for me as i have only 2 soon to be 3 geckos and most of the hatchlings would stay with me i think. So other than the fact i wont make money from it what would be the other big things to think about and be aware of before deciding for sure ?

Love the thread by the way. Have been wanting to ask this but did not want to start a thread on something that im not even sure i would end up doing.

Thanks