Gregg M
Registered Member
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Damn Mike.. That is some project... Awesome Banana bliz...
Banana Blizzard
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BalloonzForU
New Member
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- 7,573
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LOL got to love them odds!! LMAO
Still sound like a fun project.
Still sound like a fun project.
Thanks guys! My plan for this year is to incubate the first clutch for male and the rest for female. If the first clutch doesn't give me a male Mack Snow hopefully I'll get one from the female incubator. It's worth the risk so I can get as many females as possible and it's not a big deal if I don't make Supers in the second generation. If I don't get something by the third generation I'm going to stop with the project unless I find someone to outcross with. LOL!
goReptiles
New Member
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good luck!
GECKOFREAK
Addicted To Leos
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Good luck! 
nevinm said:
actually that is incorrect. kelli has produced and proved out a true blizzard/patternless aka banana blizzard. it's the only one i know of though that has been proven to carry both genes. i believe she sold it, i can not remember to whom though
nevinm
Moyer's Monsters
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- bethlehem PA
this was the email i receaved from my reliable source. he had given me permision to use this.
"Prehistoric Pets aka Blizzard Lizard, owned by Jay Vella, released those yellowish blizzard geckos in your photo back in 1998 or 1999 or so as "Banana Blizzards", assuming they were patternless blizzards. They were later proven through test breedings not to be homozygous for patternless, but just yellowish blizzards. But the name has sort of stuck and is now erroneously and confusingly used for reference to these yellow blizzards, while others wish to apply it to the mythical patternless blizzard.
This is the same guy that convinced the world that blazing blizzards would have bright red eyes through an advertising campaign involving artificially colored photos. He did this before ever even producing a blazing blizzard, just made an assumption of what they would look like. Such tactics may be a great marketing startegy, but certainly cause enormous confusion in the marketplace when the facts later fail to line up with the claims.
I glanced at the forum, but not everybody on there has a complete understanding of some of the details of genetics. Calculating odds of creating a given type are fine and dandy, but does not take into account the problem of trait linkage. When we started creating the first patternless tremper albinos, Ron Tremper assured me it could not be done. This was because his limited test breedings failed to create any in the F2 generation from double hets. The problem was trait linkage, and a larger breeding program quickly produced numbers of them.They were produced from double het breedings at a ratio of about 50 to one, not the predicted one in sixteen. Same pattern followed for blazing blizzards from tremper albinos, except this time the odds were more like one in 250. Apparently the odds are even worse for creating a patternless blizzard as nobody has yet convinced me they have one. The assumption is often made that they will be indistinguishable from blizzards, and perhaps this is the case and a few are masquerading around unnoticed. Other folks figure they would be distinguishable, at least as hatchlings.
But to my knowledge, nobody has ever bred one of these purported patternless blizzards (or banana blizzard, if you insist on using that name) to a patternless and produced all patternless babies and to a blizzard and produced all blizzard, which is the acid test for proving the genotype. Until this is done, it's irresponsible for anyone to claim they have one. The whole issue of banana blizzards has already been confused enough by earlier claims, no need to make it worse! There's a lot of gecko breeders out there, and perhaps somebody has done it (I cannot hear everything that goes on), but I know people have tried many times since the release of blizzards in 1999 or so, and if someone had succeeded, they should be as common as patternless albinos or similar. But they ain't, so without doubt some problem exists. It's possible that these two traits are allelic, and may never be combined into one animal.
In my less-than-humble opionion, a lot of this confusion could be cleared up if herpers would just adopt a uniform naming startegy. This constant need to create new names for things causes a ton of confusion. Why, for example, can't we just call a blazing blizzard an albino blizzard - which is what it really is. Or in this case, call a banana blizzard a patternless blizzard. Currently that "banana blizzard" name could be applied to either a high yellow blizzard or a patternless blizzard, depending on individual preference! Should we apply it to geckos having the appearance of the originals (very yellow blizzards), or should we reserve it for the potential appearance of the animal truly homozygous for both patternless and blizzard? See how the confusion gets started? Add to this naming confusion the near complete lack of understanding of genetics possesed by most herpers and you have a real problem. There's a great little book just recently available called "Genetics for Herpers" that will give those willing to spend ten bucks and read it a better understanding of the subject.
Sean Niland
VMS Professional Herpetoculture"
he also told me he would try to find out what the deal was with the one from kelli. or if she sees this mayb she could chime in.
nevin
"Prehistoric Pets aka Blizzard Lizard, owned by Jay Vella, released those yellowish blizzard geckos in your photo back in 1998 or 1999 or so as "Banana Blizzards", assuming they were patternless blizzards. They were later proven through test breedings not to be homozygous for patternless, but just yellowish blizzards. But the name has sort of stuck and is now erroneously and confusingly used for reference to these yellow blizzards, while others wish to apply it to the mythical patternless blizzard.
This is the same guy that convinced the world that blazing blizzards would have bright red eyes through an advertising campaign involving artificially colored photos. He did this before ever even producing a blazing blizzard, just made an assumption of what they would look like. Such tactics may be a great marketing startegy, but certainly cause enormous confusion in the marketplace when the facts later fail to line up with the claims.
I glanced at the forum, but not everybody on there has a complete understanding of some of the details of genetics. Calculating odds of creating a given type are fine and dandy, but does not take into account the problem of trait linkage. When we started creating the first patternless tremper albinos, Ron Tremper assured me it could not be done. This was because his limited test breedings failed to create any in the F2 generation from double hets. The problem was trait linkage, and a larger breeding program quickly produced numbers of them.They were produced from double het breedings at a ratio of about 50 to one, not the predicted one in sixteen. Same pattern followed for blazing blizzards from tremper albinos, except this time the odds were more like one in 250. Apparently the odds are even worse for creating a patternless blizzard as nobody has yet convinced me they have one. The assumption is often made that they will be indistinguishable from blizzards, and perhaps this is the case and a few are masquerading around unnoticed. Other folks figure they would be distinguishable, at least as hatchlings.
But to my knowledge, nobody has ever bred one of these purported patternless blizzards (or banana blizzard, if you insist on using that name) to a patternless and produced all patternless babies and to a blizzard and produced all blizzard, which is the acid test for proving the genotype. Until this is done, it's irresponsible for anyone to claim they have one. The whole issue of banana blizzards has already been confused enough by earlier claims, no need to make it worse! There's a lot of gecko breeders out there, and perhaps somebody has done it (I cannot hear everything that goes on), but I know people have tried many times since the release of blizzards in 1999 or so, and if someone had succeeded, they should be as common as patternless albinos or similar. But they ain't, so without doubt some problem exists. It's possible that these two traits are allelic, and may never be combined into one animal.
In my less-than-humble opionion, a lot of this confusion could be cleared up if herpers would just adopt a uniform naming startegy. This constant need to create new names for things causes a ton of confusion. Why, for example, can't we just call a blazing blizzard an albino blizzard - which is what it really is. Or in this case, call a banana blizzard a patternless blizzard. Currently that "banana blizzard" name could be applied to either a high yellow blizzard or a patternless blizzard, depending on individual preference! Should we apply it to geckos having the appearance of the originals (very yellow blizzards), or should we reserve it for the potential appearance of the animal truly homozygous for both patternless and blizzard? See how the confusion gets started? Add to this naming confusion the near complete lack of understanding of genetics possesed by most herpers and you have a real problem. There's a great little book just recently available called "Genetics for Herpers" that will give those willing to spend ten bucks and read it a better understanding of the subject.
Sean Niland
VMS Professional Herpetoculture"
he also told me he would try to find out what the deal was with the one from kelli. or if she sees this mayb she could chime in.
nevin
first of i wouldnt buy jack from PP second of all i know for a fact kelli hammack indeed had a blizzard/patternless. she test bred it and proved it out. now i will get kelli on here to more about it. i am sure sean doesnt know all that goes on
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